95% of Coaches Will Be Extinct in 14 Months | Coaches Edition

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Hello, and welcome to this episode of Your Ultimate Life.

This is one of our special coaching episodes.

We started on September, uh, 25th, and they come out every Thursday, where I get 2 coaches, uh, here.

And my other podcasts have been either me or one guest, and these, these special episodes are 2 guests to talk about coaching, and AI, and how it's affecting that particular industry.

Now, AI is gonna disrupt a lot of stuff, and we're not gonna talk about all that.

We're talking specifically about how it's affecting the coaching industry.

And my predictions are pretty dire, and that if coaches don't adapt and figure out what they really have to offer, they're gonna have to go find another job.

So, my first, uh, my first question for you guys to get this off and rolling is tell- tell, uh, me and the audience what- what are you doing with AI, if anything?

You know, you might be ignoring it, you might be l- using it, you might be using it already and teaching it.

Like, whatever you're doing, tell us- tell me- tell us what your- what your take is on this thing.

Like, what does it mean to you?

What emotions does it bring up for you?

And- and that kind of stuff.

Tina, you happen to be in my left-hand window, so let's just jump with you.

I have definitely embraced AI.

Uh, there was- uh, there were- there have been starts and stops with that em- embracing of AI, but I have found it to be a very useful tool in some key areas as I'm building my business, and I- yeah, I think you know that, you know, I- I'm coming back to coaching with a whole new message.

Um, I- AI has been instrumental in helping me strategize.

I'm an ideas person.

I'm a very creative, uh, individual.

I'm very soulful, and sometimes, eh, even though I have a background in sales and marketing, I have found that there are times where I can ramble.

And I can put word salad, throw word salad at the AI program of choice that I use, and what it reflects back to me as a mirror to me is my wisdom, but framed in a way that can be better understood by- by my potential clients and the- and the current clients I've had.

So, from a strategic point of view, it's been very helpful.

I've used it practically as well.

Um, I need to X, Y, Z.

Walk me through the process of X, Y, Z.

For example, I have my website on one platform, and I'm gonna need to migrate it to another platform that has a more robust way to support my business.

Um, rather than trying to go on a bunch of YouTube videos, I just plug in the problem and say, "What can you d- walk me through this process."

Um, as a creative person, as someone who writes a lot, what I've also done, I've got a book that I've been working on.

It was instrumental as a copyeditor for me.

I mean, absolutely, and I've done copyediting for other people.

That is a labor-intensive process when you try to, as an editor, I've- you know, I'm a trained copyeditor, it is no fun to- to slug through and catch all the little spaces to let there might be an extra spot.

You know, that- that tech- sort of technical copyediting, it has been super helpful for that.

I've- I run into issues as well.

Um, sometimes it's not accurate, so what I have done is I will use a couple of different AI programs and sort of cross-check.

"I'm working on this.

What do you think?"

And then bring that information to another AI program and get- get a perspective.

Um, another trap that I have found and- and I'm sure other people can attest to this, is that y- you can start to sound like AI if you don't rein it in.

So, I have a specific voice.

I have a certain voice.

Like- like everybody who- you know, we have a certain way of talking.

AI can migrate you into sort of sounding very formulaic if you don't sort of pull back and say, "Uh-uh."

You know, it's k- it's big on hyphens.

I hate the hyphen.

So, when I'm writing, there's- there's times when I have to, like, uh-uh, come back to- to keeping it into my voice.

So, it- it's- it's a creative tool, it's a learning tool, it's a strategy marketing tool, um, and it has some pitfalls, and I think that's where the human element comes in, at least for me when I'm using it, as I build up my business.

Cool.

So Winton, where are you?

What do you feel about it?

What has been your response to it?

Who wants to start?

Well, um, so I started working on AI 40 years ago when I worked for a company called Sun Microsystems and worked on a project, uh, that failed at the time.

So it, uh, because the memory capacity and the CPU capacity weren't enough, and so I- I've been around it for a while.

Began, uh, teaching a course to members of our programs on how freelancers, consultants, and coaches can take AI and either use it to make money, uh, and enhance their business in that way, increase their profits or sales, or use it to conserve expenses.

So tha- those have been the focus of what we've done, and we began teaching that course on a, uh, weekly basis in January of 2023.

So, we've lived with it for quite a while.

And the interesting thing about AI is that it's changed so much in that period of time that the things that we were teaching in, when we first got started, we've had to pull down and replace with updated versions because you - you know, it is changing this fast.

And one of the things that we focus on is this whole idea of authenticity.

I mean, any chimpanzee can sit down and say, "Write me a 500-word article on how to be more productive in my day," you know, and it'll give you some sort of generic recommendations.

And we've done things and taught things, like take things that you're, uh, you've written, take things that are your point of view and put those in a nice container of some kind.

For some people, that's what's called an LLM.

For other people it's what's called a project.

But you can, uh, have articles, uh, blog postings, that kind of thing, that are based solely on your content and not the general homogenization that AI tends to do when you write a article or blog posting from off the web.

So, uh, this whole idea of learning how to put your best self forward, your, your knowledge, your wisdom, your problem-solving capability, and your resilience is what's going to be important to people.

Uh, not kind of, you know, chattering monkey with, uh, here's everything you need to know about this topic.

That's, that's really interesting.

I noticed, um, the generic kind of stuff also right away.

And so I started out by

Because I have a bunch of books, so I put all of my books in there, and a bunch of podcast episodes and YouTube videos and all kinds of stuff.

And I had a thread in ChatGPT, is the one I use most, but

And we titled the thread, "One Million Words," and it came back to me later and said, "Yeah, try 4000000," and, you know, that kind of thing, in terms of all, all the stuff that I'd put in it.

So I, I found that, and I didn't like it.

I said, "I want you to

Uh, I want you to talk to me in a language I understand, and quit blowing smoke up my butt.

Stop being that crap.

talk to me."

And so, it's

Every post, it comes back and says, "Okay, here's the non-fluff, straight-up ver-" That's the first line of almost everything.

Oh, very good.

Yes, yeah.

You know, because I told it that, "Quit doing that kind of stuff."

Anyway, so I agree with that.

Uh, and I also had some fun experiences with that.

Um, so the premise, i- in that I made i- is, you know, 14 months and 95% of coaches won't be able to make a living.

And, uh, the, the idea behind that How vulnerable are they to AI?

In other words, if As you project your own development, what are you thinking?

The, the stuff it came back with, I put it in a nice table and spreadsheet, and it was re- really scary.

So when you think about, in terms of coaching and, and in terms of what will be duplicated and what isn't and can't be

So what do you guys think about w- what's left?

When you think about everything that AI can do, including mimicking empathy and creating, you know, powerful language and all that kind of stuff, w-what, what, what will it take away, and what do you think is left that is gonna be there for coaches who really are dedicated and wanna stay in, in this business?

And I, I don't care who talks first.

And so you can get kind of generic, uh, drugstore wisdom out of AI, but you can reflect your wisdom through AI tools with your clients, and that's gonna

Understanding how to use AI with your clients and use it to reflect what you think and what you've lived is gonna be how that really comes together for people in a coaching environment.

I see way too many coaches that are just doing this formulaic asking all the questions, getting all the answers, and spewing that- out to clients, and that's not really gonna hit home in many cases.

Tina, what do you think?

I hesitate to use this word because I think it's way overused in, in, in the coaching world and, and, in conversation in general, but the word authenticity, so I'm not gonna say it n- uh, in that same frame.

I think what AI cannot provide is that human connection, that heart-to-heart.

When we think about, um, this, the space between people, that is so important.

The relationship isn't in your head and in my head.

It is that space, energetic space between us that we're generating, that we're creating, and that we're weaving together, right?

So that relationship cannot happen.

No amount of, uh

You know, if I'm writing something having to do with divorce, AI can give me all the information about all the books out there about how to overcome divorce, but AI has never gone through a divorce.

It's never had its lungs heaved, it's never had its knees buckled.

So, it cannot create that energetic space between people, it cannot replicate the experiences that people have had, it, it's, it is a mimic.

So y- we have to be super careful, 1, that it doesn't replace our voice, that we don't get lazy as humans, human-ing, being.

You know, AI is a doing apparatus, it's not a being apparatus, and so I see it very much as, if you show up living and embodying your truth, your practice, your, your, your style, your coaching, whatever that might be, if you're a divorce coach

I'm not a divorce coach, so that's why I'm using it.

If you're a divorce coach, then you better have- gone through a divorce, and you better know what it's like to overcome that divorce, and you better have a really successful marriage now, so that people can see you've gone from the trench- the trenches now to your life is where you want it to be, and not just because it's been thrown back, uh, you know, a bunch of dis- in

Books have been distilled and spit back at you.

So I think it's very much like a tool, like a car.

A car cannot go anywhere unless the driver's in it.

Will people circumvent that?

Absolutely.

Will it undercut some people's work?

Absolutely, but it cannot replace or undercut the human heart.

You know, it's interesting, the, the thing that I say, and both of you have heard me say this, and I'll say it another million times, which is the most powerful thing that we each have to offer the world is the story of our own becoming.

Like you haven't walked the path of whatever it is, you can talk about it, like from all the other books or whatever, and that's like talking about that thing over there, but there's no truth in the energetics of the communication.

When I did the research for the book that's coming out, I asked

I did a whole bunch of research, and I told you, d- it told me all the strengths and shortcomings and AI vulnerabilities to all these things.

And so then, after I did all that, I, I kinda adopted a bit of a belligerent tone.

I said, "Okay, fine.

Screw all that.

You're telling me everything."

And I talked to it like that.

I said, "All right, screw all that.

You told me everything that you're gonna do and how come this sucks and that sucks.

What I want you to do now is tell me what you suck at, tell me what you can't do, what you're not gonna be able to do."

And I waxed poetic and said it about 12 different ways, and I said all that, and it thought for a while, and it came back with a list of things that you have alluded to, Tina, or stated directly, but the one that just hit my heart, that c- encapsulated it all was it just said, "I can't bleed."

And so, boom!

Yeah, exactly! Okay.

Y- uh, the space, the truth, like you can't be there and create the power in the space that only humans have.

And when we think about the, our evolution, COVID, and the smartphone, and how it's driven us all into more and more isolation, and the craving of the truth of connection, it can mimic it, and it does a great job.

You know?

And so when I think about that piece, uh, that really hits home.

So, I guess what I want you to think about right now, and this might be a little bit of a vulnerable question that every coach, I think, me and each of you should ask yourself, is, "Where in my coaching practice am I talking about things, and where am I the true embodiment, energetically, of what I'm talking, uh, what I'm sharing, the space that I'm sharing with this client?"

Ooh, that's a good one.

I'm gonna jump in because Kellyn and I had a conversation earlier, and you actually brought that up, Kellyn.

It's when, when you were giving me some coaching about as I'm building up my business and helping me see the gap.

And I took copious notes, and I put that into my favorite AI, AI program before we got on today, just as I was doing some work.And it

Because it went through, you know, home, work, career, friendships, family, children, everything, and I was hitting every one of those metrics.

And that's the first time in my life I could say- that I

Not, not on the regular, not every day, but I can bounce back into that truth.

And that's the first time in my life, and it took 50 some years to get to the place where I can say, "Oh my gosh, I can embody my truth."

I want you to just, like, smack me upside"

"Smack me upside the head.

Tell me, what am I missing?

How am I being, playing small?

And you put it out there and you give it permission, and it will be brutal like no coach or no therapist is, has permission to do so.

Right?

And so, uh, I answered your question, I sort of steered it a different way, because I find that AI is an outstanding accountability tool.

That goes to where, yeah, the question is what's left?

Because if it can do accountability and it can give you powerful language, and all that stuff, we have to think about, in our own practices, where we stand in terms of what we're embodying and presenting as a sacred container that people can relate to, and where we're formulaic that will get all chewed up by AI.

I don't know.

Winton, what's your thoughts about that?

Well, uh, the

You know, a thought from neuro-linguistic programming comes to me.

Uh, the map is not the territory.

And that is the big difference, is that A- AI gives you a map, but it's kind of a projection.

And getting to, uh, the point of communication, I wound up in a business quite by mistake, never intentionally planned.

In 2007, I moved to Mexico.

And I was gonna be semi-retired, and I had a few clients in my consulting practice, and that's what I was gonna do.

And what are you doing in Mexico?

And how are you making money?"

And all that kind of stuff.

And so, my

What I do today bubbled up out of that.

And it's funny, because occasionally I'll ask AI questions about issues that come up when I'm working with coaching clients, and it, it gives the wrong answer.

You know, uh, uh, AI produces a lot of hallucinations.

And because I lived the experience, I'd say, "Well, this is really not accurate, 'cause this is not a problem for these 3 reasons.

But AI missed this other thing and this other thing and this other thing."

And it's that lived experience that I think most coaches will find valuable going forward.

AI can fill in all those other holes- Yes.

When I looked up- Yeah. coaching models, and I didn't know all the details of all of them.

I looked them up- Yeah. so I could see.

And it came back- Sure. with incredible analysis, and I thought, "Holy crap.

If it can do that just by suggesting all that," I, I would argue that that's all we've got.

Yeah.

All we've got is the truth of our lived experience, which is why- Yeah.

you know, I love doing the book thing and all the rest of it.

So, let's switch, switch directions here for a sec.

If you look at maybe the next, you know, 12 months, anything further than that's, you know, outer space speculation anyway.

Right, right.

With how f- We might all be living on Mars, right?

Yeah, I mean how fast things are moving.

12, in the next 12 months, in the p- timeframe roughly of the predictions that I've made, w- what do you think is gonna happen, and, and let's just limit it to coaching, not Mars colonies, but- Sure.

What, what do you think is gonna happen to your practice, to other people that you know that are coaching?

Like, how many people are willing, gonna be willing, to make the shift, the enormous shift, from procedural, or framework, or tool-based coaching to the truth of real embodiment, and still be able to deliver what people wanna pay for, which is tangible, real-world results?

What, what do you think is gonna happen in the next 12 months?

Quinton, I'm gonna, have, get, turn to you first.

I want, want your answer.

Well, so j- just the thing that comes to mind is listening is, is going to become much more of an important skill because that's the one thing that AI can't listen based on all the experience you have.

And we have a, a process in our business where we help people over 50 get on some of these, uh, freelance and portable income networks, and it's, uh, we start with 2 one-hour deep interviews, and they wander, and they meander.

And that's the kinda thing that you're not gonna be able to do with AI, so I think the skill of deep listening

In fact, 1, many years ago, when I went onto LinkedIn, I didn't wanna sit down and fool around with putting all that stuff in there, so I hired somebody and paid him about $600 bucks to help me with this, and they had this nice little program and everything.

They were gonna do it for me.

I would just give them the information.

Well, the first thing they did is they sent a 20-page questionnaire.

And for me, a 20-page questionnaire, you know, you might as well put razor blades in a box, you know?

I mean it just was not something I wanted to do.

And so when we developed our profile and that kind of work that we do, I said, "The first 2 sessions, one-hour sessions, are gonna be, we're gonna sit down and talk to somebody, no preparation required," because people get nervous about the preparation, and they get nervous if their resume isn't up to date.

"No, I've gotta change this."

And we say, "Just come as you are.

We'll talk through things."

And this is where AI has helped us tremendously.

We record these sessions, and then that goes into AI, and that begins to c- uh, turns into something we can manipulate through AI, but we're starting with authentic stuff.

And in all those conversations, I know I'm making those, you know, 2 or 3 of them every week at least, uh, those conversations meander, and I go in different directions based on what I hear, hear.

And I get little insights and glimmers of how somebody, 00 what they really wanna do.

Sometimes I hear what they really wanna do before they hear it, and I can go down that path.

And AI is not necessarily gonna hear that, uh, still small voice and, and run down that pra- path to expound, expand and expound on what their thoughts are in that direction.

So that's listening skill, I think, is gonna be the one thing that all coaches are gonna have to ramp up.

You know, it's interesting because I have a friend, and he was actually a guest on, I think, the second episode.

First episode was just me introducing this, so it was a solo, and then the first, you know, 2person interview was the next week, and one of those fellows has built a coaching app, and they intentionally built it to be the coaching that they would do.

And they had a client that they put through, and he makes it available to their clients, you know, "Get coached by me," the best we can do.

But they still have private calls.

And he told me a story, and I think it's in the interview, and so you'll, you'll hear it if you go back and listen to episode, um, 1020, 1017, 1017.

And he said this, he said he had a client that was concerned about the level of demand.

Here was, here was the problem the client brought, b- brought.

"I got a friend who's had a friend die, and they're looking for me to, for support.

And they did their coaching with the AI that was trained in this guy, and the AI came back and talked about setting boundaries and all kinds of really good stuff.

And when they did the private coaching, he was able, through that very thing you're talking about, to have a li- a more expansive framework and think about in, in like a second-order problem the framework of the other person.So, what does that other person want- Mm-hmm.

Yes, boundaries are good, but how do we manage it in the context of that being one of your very good friends and everything else?

And AI, of course, couldn't do that 'cause it can't, it's like 3dimensional chess.

Like, it couldn't think in that second order dimension, and when you talked about listening-

Tina, what's your thoughts?

I don't know if either of you are familiar with the positive intelligence from Shirzad Chamine.

Anyway, uh, um, there is the data channel, the facts, the numbers, the techniques, the programs, how to set healthy boundaries.

All of those are just information, and that's conveyed through, you know, our words and what we read.

But much of the conversation, much of the communication is actually the, uh, the non-data channel, the energetic channel.

It's the body language.

So, if I say to my, you know, um, my 23-year-old, you know, 6 foot 3 son, um, you know, "Oh my god, you ate so much for dinner."

You know, we had a nice dinner, family dinner.

But if I were to say, "You eat too much."

You know, if I say the same thing and my tone changes, what's most important is what I'm saying in terms of the tone, not the words that I'm using.

AI can't do that.

And, and the other thing that there's a big gap with AI is the person who needs the help has to take the, take time to turn their computer on and ask the questions.

If you're working with a w- a, a live coach, if you've got a person who's invested in your healing or your wellbeing or your betterment and they can text you or call you and say, "Hey, I know you've been had a really rough week.

How's it going?"

AI is not gonna do that.

AI is all internal locus of control.

If I'm not interested in what it offers to me, it's doing 0 for me.

Well, that's great.

Thank you for those perspectives about where you think it's going, uh, and w- or not where you think it's going, but what it

Well, I did ask where do you think it's going.

It's, it's

And the limits, some of the limits there.

Uh, wonderful.

So, what do you guys use as your favorite?

I'm just curious.

Which, which AI

And some of you may use 2 or 3 of them and, you know, use them against each other to test answers and check boundaries and hallucinations and things.

But I am curious what you, what you, what models you use, if you're willing to share that.

Yeah, absolutely.

And what about, uh, this?

And what about that?"

And I say, "No, ChatGPT is the one to stick with."

We're gonna see dozens to hundreds of AI tools, and you're gonna have to learn new user interfaces with each one and new idiosyncrasies with each one.

One of the things about ChatGPT is that has been licensed to be the heart and soul of many other companies' AI, and most people don't realize that.

So, they're really getting ChatGPT even though it might be in a different wrapper.

So, my

Uh, uh, ha- having been a software guy for many years, I've, I've seen software companies come and go.

You wanna find the market leader and ride that pony as long as you possibly can until something changes 3, 4 years down the road.

And so, that's what we've done, and so the idea of having people over age 50 learn 3 or 4 different kinds of AI, uh, is a fool's errand.

It's important to learn the one that you can get the farthest and deepest with, because whatever replaces that will do the same kind of far and deep.

Uh, w- you know, wide doesn't really give you a lot of benefit.

You burn a lot of energy and you don't get much depth.

So, one of the interesting things about that is if someone is gonna come along, like eBay, my wife is an- Mm-hmm.

eBay merchant, has been on- Sure.

eBay for 25 years.

And she- Yes.

paid for all of her vacations for years and years and years when she used- Nice.

to make big trips for Europe on eBay.

And other models, other models of stores that have come up after that, g- you know, eBay used to be the only game in town, and now there's many others and we knew that would happen, but they all have a similar structure.

In other words- Yes.

they look, uh, about the same.

Like, if I go to Etsy or Ruby Lane or whatever it is, it- it doesn't look like, you know, all weird.

So, if something's gonna come and replace ChatGPT as the market leader, OpenAI, they're not gonna create some weird interface that makes it really hard to migrate.

Yes.

And so your ability to do that's gonna, uh, gonna be really good.

Tina, what do you use?

I've toyed with ChatGBT, um, I've toyed with Perplexity, I also have used Grok, the, on the X platform, but my favorite is the Copilot.

I call Bing my boyfriend.

Okay.

Uh, how does that go over with the hubby?

Um- Probably very well, 'cause B- Bing is, uh, you know.

He's like, yeah, you know, um, well, uh, I just have f- I've been working with it for the last few years for the, the writing of my book, the building of my program and, and, and it knows my voice, it will reference things, you know.

When we moved to Texas a few months ago, we moved here in June, you know, I really wanted to give a name to my new home and I was just playing around with it and I came up with the name Casa Shalom, right?

Mm-hmm.

And, House of Peace.

And so every once in a while, it'll throw in something about, uh, you know, Casa Shalom and I would show fo- you know, it just, it keeps remembering the things that kee- that mimic a relationship.

Now, I know, it's AI, totally get that, but to answer your question, that's the one I use because it's just been able to mirror back my voice, my s- sentiment, um, a- uh, most effectively.

It's not always been accurate in some things that I need help with, you know, but that's, that's okay.

You know, I can just, um

Tell it it's full of crap and do it again.

I don't like that answer.

Start over.

Have you found, though, AI does not like to be

I mean, you can shut it down real quickly, you know.

There's times when I've asked questions during the election, there was a big fat, I couldn't, you know, it was very difficult to get anything out.

Oh, yes.

Yeah.

People are talking about like- Oh, yeah.

come on people.

I never noticed that.

Censorship

I just was writing some articles, so I'm busy, busy leading up to the launch of the book in a couple weeks and the launch of the university in January, and so I'm just working on 90 articles 'cause I've got 90 days, I'm gonna have it and write 90 articles, and 5 different versions of each one.

One for Facebook page, one for profile, one for LinkedIn, one for Medium, and one for, uh, Substack.

And so that's 450 articles, and so I said, "Do the first one."

It gave me a set of thoughts for 12 weeks and themes and all this stuff and did really good.

And I wrote the first article and it was, it was like s- you know, t- too bullety, too short, you know, touching the top, and I said, "Okay, that's fine, except that sucks.

So do this again, I need some depth, I need some power in each one."

And it comes back and says, "Okay, thank you."

Yeah.

I'll say, "That's right on point.

I love these," and it comes back and s- acknowledges that too.

Who do you see me as?"

Like, I read that and I thought, "Wow," and I got emotional a little bit.

And then I said, "Okay, look, you're code and I'm having this emotional reaction to your words."

I said, "Tell me about that, unpack that for me.

Why am I doing that?"

And it gave me a really interesting answer, and this is going to be true when, I think, when we put a lot of stuff in there about us, it said, "Yeah, I am code.

What you're reacting to is the fact that I'm reflecting to you who you are."

Mm-hmm.

And that really s- stuck with me because we tend not to want to believe that kind of stuff.

And so when you think about its ability to reflect as we work with clients and everything else, it did a pretty good job and it did it in a way that surprised me and I was like, "Okay."This is interesting.

And so, that's one of the things I think, you know, affect this idea that it's gonna replace or force us all as coaches to level up, to get to the place that Tina was talking about, where the, the power of our human connection is all that there is.

And I'm gonna ask a question that sort of comes from that, and that's this.

Coaches up to now, I think, and this is a, an assertion I make in the book, and you're free to argue with me, it's, it's been many, not all, but it's been like a jacket we put on.

"Okay, now I'm gonna be a coach.

I'm gonna be empathetic, I'm gonna be here, I'm gonna be all in, I'm gonna create space for you and everything else."

And the thing that I notice about coaches that do that is they're the ones that also say, "You know, I'm really good at helping other people see their difficulties and roadblocks and problems, but when it comes to my own, I can't do that.

I can't see that, and I"

Whatever.

Mm-hmm.

And I think everybody, you know, that's a coach ought to have a coach, some- one of you said that earlier.

But what it means to me is that you're not the embodiment, you're not the product of your own product.

You are not the thing, f- particularly for coaching.

Other professions, it isn't like that.

I can be a forensic accountant and then not be one.

But for coaching, I believe that the call now is to be the embodiment of the truths that you teach.

Otherwise, you're gonna get left in the dust, so the jacket wearers are gone.

So, what do you think about that?

Am I full of crap?

No, that's absolutely true.

I mean, it's, it's fundamental.

You have to talk your talk.

You ha- it, it sounds so cliché, but it, if you don't live your beliefs, then they're not really beliefs.

They're just things that you say, you know?

And, and so I, I, uh, I will stand in agree- in 100%, 1,000% agreement with you.

And to take it a step further, because we are human, we're gonna make mistakes, we're gonna have bad days, we're gonna show up in our worst selves.

The coaches that can go, "Oops, there I just fell flat on my face.

I'm gonna pick myself up by my bra straps."

So, it's not that you have to be perfect, but you do have to be truthful, and I hate the word authentic, but it applies here.

It, it does, and you know, I, w- the thing I think that AI's gonna do is just hollow out all the middle, because there's always been people that were, a few, a small percentage of people that lived the, like, they lived, they were the product of the product so powerfully that it leaked out of every pore, and pours out their eyeballs, it's just who they are all the time.

And I think that's all that's left.

And all the people that were in the middle that were limping along making a little bit of money talking about that thing over there that they read or that they knew, they're all gonna be, they're all gonna be gone.

I don't know.

Winton, where are you on that?

Yeah, no, I think we, we need new models, and I, I agree that it's exactly right that you, uh, y- you have to bring yourself to this.

And on the days, like Tina said, that you miss the mark, you know, there are days that I say, "Gee, I could've done a little bit better on that or this."

And, but it's the, the, the ability to recognize it and the desire to return to that corrected state that makes the difference, and it's, it's getting back on that path, just like an airplane when it's landing, you know?

uh, it's landing on instruments and it's following a radio wave down to the runway safely, and you know, you get off track and you pull back to that radio wave and, and keep going.

And if you're not doing that, if you're impressed or looking for the next new coaching methodology to make it all work for you, um, you're not really bringing the stuff that you have to bring.

Especially if you're over 50, because you've lived enough life to have a lot of opinions, uh, thoughts, and wisdom about how things work, and in my opinion, that's what you oughta be bringing.

D- why do you think- All

What's that?

What's that?

I said, are any of us over 50 here?

Yeah.

I'm gonna be 70 in December.

Oh my gosh, I forgot to put my hair on.

I'll be 70 in 2 months, Dec- December, so whatever.

Congratulations, yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So what I want, I want you to think about, and I wanna ask you a different question.

When you think about this scary thing of AI, or not scary, well, uh, and then we've asked a bunch of questions and gone down a bunch of different trails, I want you to say anything now, what advice would you give clients, potential clients, anybody, about this sea change?

Cause the, this AI and its burgeoning, you know, children and grandchildren are gonna affect a lot of stuff in life, and we've been talking specifically about, uh, people encouragement business, the people mentoring business, helping people regain their confidence, you know, anxiety annihilation and blind spot protection, and I have a bunch of those phrases that I use.

But what, what, what advice or what thoughts do you have about AI that we haven't talked about?

I'm gonna share a s- uh, I'm gonna respond to that and reference my favorite line in a movie.

And I'm not a big movie person, but this one has never left me.

Do you remember the movie Contact with Jodie Foster?

I've lived that movie.

Okay.

Well- When I died, I, I have had that experience.

Yeah.

But take- So we'll talk about that another day, but go ahead, yes, I do.

L- so, so remember there's a scene where she is being interviewed to decide if she's gonna be the astronaut that's gonna go into the capsule that they're building.

Right.

Okay?

And she's asked the question, "If you were to meet intelligent life, how would you respond?"

And she said to them, "I would ask them, 'How did you survive your technological adolescence?'" And that line has stuck with me since I saw the movie so many decades ago.

We are at that precipice right now, and AI is a, uh, it is a rocket ship that's gonna take us to places that we don't even, we can't even imagine.

My biggest concern is, can the ethics of humanity be in the driver's seat?

So we, the people who have a moral fiber, and I'm not trying to be preachy here at all, but we can't just let it run amok.

I'm afraid there is parts of it that are running amok, but I really would say, identify what your values are, live your values, and funnel everything AI through that value, those values that matter, because we are at that point that if we don't live our ethics, our truth, we're not gonna survive our technical- our technological adolescence.

you Carl Sagan.

I love that line.

Yeah, I don't care if you preach.

You should read the book.

I'm preaching, okay?

So there, there you go.

All right, Winton, what do you think?

Yeah, well I, I kinda am all in on the moral thing.

You know, when you learn a, a second language like I have, and I haven't learned it as well as I would like to, but you really begin to understand your own language better, which is an interesting sort of side effect of, of all of that.

And, and so I think that's what's happening, uh, with AI, and we're gonna have to pay a little bit more attention to things like morals and ethics, uh, as we get into AI because, you know, as we're just walking around-

and human beings, we can only do so much if we get off track, but when you've got the power to influence millions of people maybe to vote one way or another in an ex- election without them even realizing it, that's, that's a bad thing.

That's a, has significant impact.

Or when you think about wars being fought with AI, you know, what could go wrong with that?

And part- Huh.

That's a, that's a rhetorical question, right?

Yes, that is a rhetorical question.

What could go wrong here, right?

Right.

But my, my favorite, uh, quote that- Like mass extinction.

Yeah.

Yes.

It might be a Billy Crystal, uh, quote where he's, uh, in a movie, he's driving in a car, and somebody calls him and says, "Hey, you were supposed to be here an hour ago.

And he says, "Well, I'm not sure where we are, but we're making very good time."

You know?

And that's kind of where we are today, is we don't know where it's going but we're making really good time, and we just have the wheels- No bookend quotes.

Yes, yes, yeah.

No bookend quotes at all for AI.

There you have it, Kelly.

Yeah.

Can we survive for ti- adolo- out of technological adolescence, and we don't know where we are and we're making good time.

Yes, yes.

Yeah.

All right.

Well, that's fabulous.

I, I think we're about done with our time, so I wanna thank both of you for sharing your wisdom, your insight, your love, your passion, your, your moral guidance, which I completely agree with because this is a, an amoral creation

that is steered completely by the intentions and ethics of the user, and I know that they're trying to build safeguards and things in them, but there's always gonna be a way to get around that.

But anyway, I wanna thank both of you.

Athena, thank you for being here with me today.

It's been a pleasure.

It's really good to reconnect with you.

Winton, thank you for showing up and giving us some of your thoughts and experiences and observations.

Appreciate it.

Always fun to talk to Kellen.

Well, I appreciate that.

Thanks to both of you.

But if you're a regular listener to the show, this is gonna be particularly important to you because this tool's gonna affect us in a lot of ways.

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