AI Is Your Intern, Not Your Replacement

Kellan Fluckiger: [00:00:00] Welcome to the show. Tired of the Hype about Living the Dream. It's time for truth. This is the place for tools, power, and real talk so you can create the life you dream and deserve your ultimate life.

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Kellan Fluckiger: Hello and welcome to Your Ultimate Life. This is the podcast I created to help you live a life of purpose, prosperity, and joy by serving with your skills, your gifts, and your life experience. This is one of the special Thursday editions where we talk about coaching and AI with a couple of coaches and how that's.

Kellan Fluckiger: And what they see in their own practice, their own business, and in the world in general. In, in that regard, we won't be doing Terminator or, you know, visions of the future, although that could be a [00:01:00] topic for someone else's show. I've got two coaches here with me. Ray, welcome to the show.

Ray Hagler: Thank you Kellen.

Ray Hagler: Glad to be here.

Kellan Fluckiger: And Jason, welcome to the show.

Jason Duncan: Thank you. Glad to be here.

Kellan Fluckiger: Perfect. So there isn't really a list of set questions. I guess I kinda like to start with letting the audience I'll give you one at a time. You can say a little about what you do, but the question I'm really interested in is, are you using AI in your work and how, how are you finding that?

Kellan Fluckiger: What are you using it to do? Ray, let's happen to be on my left hand side, so why don't we start with you.

Ray Hagler: Yeah, Kellen. My name is Ray, Ray Hagler. I'm glad to be here. I definitely do use I would say that in my journey, everything that I look to do is more focused on the end in mind. So nowadays I'll look more towards when I get to the end of my life and I hear, well done, good and faithful servant. I know that I will have reached something great, but in the interim, as I'm here, what I really am trying to [00:02:00] do or doing is spreading the message of hope to a billion people. We do that through coaching, through our programs, through a lot of other things in business.

Ray Hagler: But we do use ai and I think that AI is great for information but not necessarily great for transformation. So just a little bit about us, what we do. But yeah, ma'am. Glad to be here.

Kellan Fluckiger: Tell me a little bit more about how you use it.

Ray Hagler: So I think that probably how anybody else uses it on a daily basis as I come to ideas or roadblocks or things that I'm not, you know, fully let's say confident in, I may ask for different ideas or ways to utilize my ideas to gain a little bit more insight.

Ray Hagler: Usually for structures too, I think a lot in order and how do we get things into very specific orders and why that order matters. So I'll go deep into AI asking it questions about the divine order of things and just trying to really get into how do we set a destination that we're trekking to and we run into those [00:03:00] roadblocks.

Ray Hagler: How can I have AI do the heavy lifting to get over some of those, is what I use, use it for mainly.

Kellan Fluckiger: Let me ask one more question about that and then Jason, I'll get to you with that same question. You said divine order and you talked about well done now. Good and faithful servant, a quote from the scriptures.

Kellan Fluckiger: Ai, how do you find ai, and I'm interested in this too because I'm very spiritual, religious also, which are different things, but how do you find it responds to questions posed or framed in the context of spirituality? How do you find that interaction?

Ray Hagler: You know, it depends. I'm very cautious of how I use it.

Ray Hagler: I never use it to try to instill a new belief or any, it's mainly just to gain clarity about something I may not be completely clear on. So if there's any missing pieces to the puzzle. Always am trying to fill in those blanks. If it can. If I find that AI can get me an answer to something that's suitable before I can go and do deeper [00:04:00] research, I'll see what it has.

Ray Hagler: I'll take that into account. I typically pray over a lot of things or go to scripture or, you know, ask other advice, ensure that it's right. But I will use it to fill in pieces or gain clarity because I find that that's where the true value is, as in how clear can I interpret something and then articulate it back out.

Ray Hagler: If it can help me do that, I'll use it.

Kellan Fluckiger: Cool. Jason, let's go for it.

Jason Duncan: Well Kel and I am the real Jason Duncan, and I am the founder of a mastermind program called The Exeter Club. We've developed a proprietary methodology for helping entrepreneurs get unstuck from the daily operations, get their businesses prepared to sell when they're ready to exit, but in the meantime, they move out of owner.

Jason Duncan: Owner operator status up into what I call owner investor status. So that's what we do with the Exeter Club. Now the question as to whether I use ai, it the a hundred percent Yes. Every day, all day. It is a now a constant tool in the arsenal. It is. [00:05:00] I, I can't, I can't even think of a day in the past two and a half years that I have not used AI for something and what I typically use it.

Jason Duncan: For is I refer to it as a thinking partner, and Claude is the number one platform that I use out of all the ones that I use, and their advertisements call it a thinking partner, which I think is pretty clever. And so, for example, just before I got on this call today. On this show I was preparing for a, an event that I'm leading coming up in the 1st of March.

Jason Duncan: There's a leadership society that I'm the president of here in the Nashville community at a private club in Nashville. And I will have to plan all of our events for the year. Well, this year we're doing something a little different on those events where before it was all speaker driven, where. I would speak for half an hour, then I'd have a guest speaker come in, speak for, you know, 45 minutes to an hour and we'd have dinner and cigars and all that kind of stuff.

Jason Duncan: Well, this year we're, we're changing the, the the structure of that around my podcast, the root of All Success. So we're gonna [00:06:00] invite the guest to come in. We're gonna do a live taping of the, of that podcast in front of the audience. And then after the taping is over, we're gonna do q and a with the guests.

Jason Duncan: Well, since we're doing that new. What I did I, what did I do? I went into Claude and I have a specific project set up for all my coaching engagements and I said, Hey, on Leadership Society, here's the agenda that we did last year. Here's the, the, the idea that we've got this year. I want you to act like an a professional event coordinator and planner who understands you're working with very high level executives and entrepreneurs.

Jason Duncan: How would you plan this event around what I'm trying to do? Ask me one question at a time, and then it went through and asked all the questions and it's given me a proposed agenda and I'm giving some feedback and we're coming down to getting the agenda. That's just one example of how I use it as a thinking and ideation partner.

Kellan Fluckiger: So that's really cool. And it's, it's one of the things that's fascinating for me about doing this is to hear all the different ways people are using it and more, [00:07:00] more than that. It's interesting is to hear how they describe that relationship, because some describe it as, oh, I just flip and love it.

Kellan Fluckiger: And some describe it with this sort of. Air of trepidation. I use it because it does good, but I'm waiting at every moment for it to screw up. And you know, it's just funny to hear the different ways people create their emotional relationship with this piece of technology. So that's fascinating. Ray, what do you think?

Kellan Fluckiger: I mean in the book Coaching in the Rise of AI is the book that spawned these, and I wrote it from June, may, June to about September, October of last year. And in that six months, I saw the capacity. I used chat GPT, but I saw the capacity double. And then double, double again. By capacity, I mean ability to fast, correctly, assimilate, find good stuff, give intelligent answers, and you know, do better and then better.

Kellan Fluckiger: And it, and it blew me away [00:08:00] just in terms of how fast it was growing, and I noted that in our conversations. What do you think is. The things that AI is are going to replace or nearly replace in what today passes for coaching. And I don't really care. I said Ray, but either one of you can start. I, I don't really care.

Ray Hagler: Well, I mean, I, I do believe on a lot of the advanced thinking. I'll do the same as Jason mentioned. I'll say optimize a prompt that gets this thing done and spit it out at the end. It's a great tool to under, to get new ways to think about ideas that you can bring to light. But I find that it's not going to have that transformation ability that we as humans have.

Ray Hagler: But it, it's a great tool if you want to get down. I have, even in one of my businesses, I call it the B2B DCEO. So it's an extremely elaborate CEO that I can plug. Certain keywords too, and it can give me information [00:09:00] like KPIs and reports. It's very fast as to what that can do. And you can put that into your business and get all these things going or coach somebody how to do it.

Ray Hagler: But it's the actually going out and applying it being held accountable and the transformation that you receive from the morals and ethics that we are able to do as human to human, that AI lacks. And while it can give you great information. And advice. It's not really gonna be a tool for transformation in your life without the application, is how I view it.

Kellan Fluckiger: Talk to me more about this word transformation. We as coaches, and, you know, I'm one too, we, we spew that out like it's water and we make assumptions about what that means. And of course everybody has a slightly nuanced understanding. So when you say. It's great for information and sucks at transformation.

Kellan Fluckiger: I'm paraphrasing. Tell me what you mean.

Ray Hagler: Well, if you think about it, almost like skipping a rock across the surface of the water, you can gain a lot [00:10:00] of advanced education really quick from ai. I mean, you can understand how to do almost anything. It doesn't matter. If I wanted to go into any industry, whether I wanted to be a YouTuber, start learning a game, or maybe I wanna become a CEO of a great business, all that information is there and accessible.

Ray Hagler: But if you're just using it to get the education and you get too used to just. Now I can learn really fast, but I'm never applying it towards anything. Education and thought without application is what I think of as you're just meditating a lot of the time. So if you're meditating, you're receiving all this information in education, you're really vast in knowledge, but you're not going out and applying it you're not gonna see any real life.

Ray Hagler: External transformation. The inward part of you may be getting to a point, it can handle a bigger external world because you're now, you understand everything, but if you don't apply it to gain the confidence to get the real world experience and you're just learning this stuff, there's gonna be no real transformation in your life.

Ray Hagler: You're just gonna have a lot of knowledge that may lose value rather quickly. [00:11:00]

Kellan Fluckiger: So I'm hearing application, real world experience the execution of things that you learn. So Jason, what do you think about that, that AI is gonna replace or change in the context of coaching, which is what you do also?

Jason Duncan: Well, I, I think I wanna put it in context. So the average coach in America makes less than the average household income in America, and that should tell you something about the value they're delivering. And we have to be honest with most coaches. If your entire coaching methodology can be replicated by chatbot, you are never really coaching anyway, or you're just asking questions.

Kellan Fluckiger: Say that

Jason Duncan: again. If, if your entire coaching methodology can be replicated by chatbot, you are never really coaching. You were just asking questions. Okay, keep going. And ai, I don't think AI threatens great coaches. I think it exposes mediocre ones. And you know, I mean, if you, if you look at this, what an AI can [00:12:00] do versus what a coach can do.

Jason Duncan: I, I did some research on this. The average coach in America makes about $67,800 a year, and many earn far less than that. salary.com actually puts it less, they put it around 47,000 a year. So if you look at this entry level, coaches are charging a rate of somewhere around $120 an hour, maybe. If you're 10 years in the business, you're $300 an hour, but there's no industry regulation for coaching.

Jason Duncan: There's no license required for coaching. Anyone can call themselves a coach. There are certification mills out there that certify coaches. There's over 500 programs worldwide, and many of them will certify if you just pay them some money. And so 48% of coaches. Themselves say, they'll even say untrained people calling themselves coaches is the number one industry threat.

Jason Duncan: They don't think AI is the threat. It's the other coaches that are the threat. And a year one attrition rate of 30% for coaches, because many fail to even launch and a five year failure rate for coaches is over 50%. So I think AI [00:13:00] will eliminate low end coaching. I think it opens up. The, the, the, the, the horizon for all of us who are really good expert coaches, because AI coaching bots are growing a hundred percent annually in the entry level market.

Jason Duncan: 'cause somebody says, well, how do I get my LLC off the ground? How do I get an EIN? Okay, some potty might've hired a coach to help them through that. Well, today you don't need a coach to do that. That's information as Ray was pointing out. You usually go get that information and a and a mediocre coach at 120 bucks an hour.

Jason Duncan: Offers What? An LLM, like Claude or chat GBT or any of these that already do for 20, 25 bucks a month. You know, and, and, and they can restate what a coach said, and they could even provide some surface level accountability. Obviously, it's not proactive. You have to engage with it to make it work. But can AI ask open-ended questions and hold coaching conversations?

Jason Duncan: Not at the high level. They can, at the entry level, but not at the high level. So I don't think the AI. It's threatening, good coaching. I think [00:14:00] it's actually gonna make good coaching even more valuable.

Kellan Fluckiger: Alright, so I'm gonna agree with that last part a lot and I'm just gonna exaggerate what you said in the middle.

Kellan Fluckiger: I don't think it's gonna get rid of every entry level coaching. I think it's gonna get rid of entry and mid-level coaching. And the only thing that's gonna be left, and my prediction in the book is that by Christmas and when I wrote it, it was 18 months out and now it's 11 months out by Christmas, 26, 90 5% of coaches.

Kellan Fluckiger: Won't be able to make a living. Now, I defined arbitrarily a living at a hundred K because I figure if you're making much less than that, you either have another job or you have a partner or you have something. 'cause it takes about that to live maybe, you know, arbitrary, but, and I still am seeing ads. A month ago I saw an ad on Facebook in a beach share of some dude on a beach with a laptop saying, change lives and make a good living and be a life coach.

Kellan Fluckiger: Somebody still doing that sort of thing and. I think that you're right. [00:15:00] Questions, frameworks, tools new ways of thinking, all of that stuff that, you know, asking good questions is what used said, you know, a coaching skill. It is, but sort of, there's so much that's still entry level stuff or mid-level stuff, and I think the whole mid-level thing is gonna be gutted and I am, am.

Kellan Fluckiger: I don't know, you know, just my opinion about that and I'm grateful for that. So then it brings me to the question, and I love the fact that you looked all that stuff up. I did too. I mean, I looked up the whole salary distribution of coaches in April or May of last year, June, and then I looked it up projecting to December of this year, and I did an analysis of 11 different coaching models and that I put in the book and all that other stuff.

Kellan Fluckiger: But this brings me to the fundamental question then. What is left? What is the core that AI cannot do, at least in any [00:16:00] vision of our present iteration?

Kellan Fluckiger: I don't care. Somebody right

Ray Hagler: the first. Yeah, it, it would seem AI and I, I like to think of different philosophies and stuff out there, just these little things that I can do. I'm always like, I treat life like a buffet. Take what I want. I'll leave the rest. And AI can seem like a filter right, that can filter out, give us the information that we really want.

Ray Hagler: And it's not necessarily the, the enemy, but it can't, it can't be there with you to create that long-term sustainable behavioral change that a lot of people need to break through to the next level. I've heard some of the most fascinating things from mentors, people that have coached me from just in a, a conversation back and forth off of how was the tone in the room?

Ray Hagler: What was the timing of the situation? Where were we in that moment in time, and what did I gain from that conversation that we were communicating back and forth from? AI can give you that knowledge and information, but I don't see how it's gonna instill it where it's gonna hold you accountable to want to [00:17:00] go out there and run the long race, especially when things begin to get a bit tough.

Ray Hagler: 'cause no matter how many questions you have, you can know all of the how, but if you don't know your why, you're gonna crack when that pressure hits. And that's what real coaches and and people that are mentor level can help you see and understand that. I don't believe AI is gonna quite be able to hit on.

Kellan Fluckiger: So,

Jason Duncan: yeah, I think my, I think my perspective on that Kellen is that, that what AI can't replace in a coaching industry is relationship. It cannot replace relationship. I, I have a coach that I work with on a pretty regular basis, and that every once in a while, not, not every meeting, but it's, it's more often than not, he will say to me, you know what?

Jason Duncan: I need you to meet this person because they are doing something that I think blah, blah, blah. An AI bot can't do that. Nobody, no AI can know who I need to know. And now it has access to that. I use perplexity dot ai, which is phenomenal for just doing research on people. I can go in there and say, [00:18:00] who is Kalen Flu Keer and who is Ray Hagler?

Jason Duncan: And I can, I can pull that out. And it's pretty cool. You Who is the real Jason Duncan? You can pull that data. But it doesn't know preemptively that I should know somebody. And frankly, even if it did know, hey, you should know so-and-so. It doesn't have a relationship with that person to make an introduction that that person would listen to.

Jason Duncan: So I think relationships are the thing that AI won't replace and relationships are necessary. I believe that one-on-one coaching while while beneficial. And, and while continued, will continue even in spite of ai. There's a relationship there that that can't be replicated. But more than just the one-on-one coaching, I think it's the mastermind experience or in a group coaching setting where you get to interact with people who are on the same journey, who are going the same direction.

Jason Duncan: AI will never be able to replace that.

Kellan Fluckiger: So one of the things that I did in the, in the, in preparing and writing the book, and I think both of you should read it, by the way, I don't know if you have, but. I'm recommending it. But anyway, I took 11 coaching models that are, [00:19:00] that I knew the names of, and it wasn't exhaustive, but I put it in for analysis and asked a couple of questions.

Kellan Fluckiger: I asked how effective is this coaching methodology at producing the results that people expect? And I realized it had whatever it had to draw from, but it did a, a surprisingly thorough analysis and sounded really good. As AI is want to do. And then I asked another question. I said, how vulnerable is it to what you know you can already do in terms of like the things you guys have said and as you see the development going forward.

Kellan Fluckiger: And it gave me an analysis of low, medium, and high vulnerability to AI based on all these different reasons and so forth. And after I did all that. It, it got to feel pretty daunting, like, holy crap, you know? Okay. And then, and then I asked it the question this way. I said, all right, fine. What do you suck at?

Kellan Fluckiger: You know, what? What can't you do? What are you gonna just fall on your face? And I used those [00:20:00] words, what are you gonna obliterate? I mean, be obliterate at, at. And it gave me some nice things and then it summarized it in one sentence and it said, I can't bleed. And to me, you know, that that is the essence of that energy in that relationship that often is the impetus for the transmission of truth.

Kellan Fluckiger: And as I worked, one of the other things I did in the book was propose a new coaching model that I thought would be AI proof and why. And as I did it and, and I had it analyze it the same way as it did the other models and so forth, it kept using the word transmission. As a, a key tenant that it is not able to do, which is talking about relationships and it's talking about, you know, that, that ethereal quality.

Kellan Fluckiger: And so that was, you know, I can't bleed. I mean that just, that hit me. 'cause I'm like, okay, now we're talking now, now there's [00:21:00] something to talk about. So you've talked to me about what AI can't do, at least in our foreseeable model right now. So what do you think coaches need to do if they really wanna stay in this game?

Kellan Fluckiger: If, if low level, formulaic level, and I even think mid, mid high, like literally 5%, that's what I'm thinking. And maybe less than that. And they're gonna be really well paid and really valuable. And what do you think coaches need to do, if anything, to stay in the game?

Ray Hagler: I would think that keeping the focus on outcomes and identity shifts for your clients, people that you're working with, that accountability and the pressure to continually succeed is what's gonna be needed.

Ray Hagler: Because we can get all of the right answers with ai, we can have 'em all, but if you don't have that ability to. [00:22:00] Show someone the way to shift an identity or to get the outcomes that they're wanting to understand what it is that they. I basically even understanding where it is that they want to go. If you don't know that and you're just out here trying to add value and add information and answer questions, that's not gonna be enough to keep you going.

Ray Hagler: You're gonna have to already know the end in mind, be able to help create maybe even. Get a bigger vision for someone and instill a new belief that they may have that limiting belief on 'em. So it's really gonna be knowing how to interact with people outside of AI to understand where they are as a person, where they're trying to go, and then figuring out creative ways right then in that moment, or with them that they trust you to give them ways that they can reach a destination that they want or enhance the destination that they're trying to get to.

Ray Hagler: You've

Kellan Fluckiger: said something really interesting and Jason, I want you to answer that. But you've said several times begin with the end in mind, and that just made me wonder [00:23:00] in a conversation, however, deep and long and some of the other coaches have talked about, you know, extended marathon sessions that they've had with their version of AI to help them with a particular thing or talk them through something.

Kellan Fluckiger: But that begin with the end in mind. In a visceral and powerful way that just, that's a really interesting thought anyway. Jason, what do you think coaches need to do? They really wanna stay in the game and make a difference.

Jason Duncan: I think we gotta lean into ai. I, I, I can, I can only imagine what it was like when calculators were first invented that were pocket, you know, you could carry around with you and how the teachers of the world were like, no, you know, so

Kellan Fluckiger: just sit down in calculus.

Kellan Fluckiger: I was, I was a junior in high school when that happened and I was taking physics and the math and physics teachers were fighting with each other about whether or not we had to still do the slide rules. Or whether or not we were allowed to. So I lived that transition and that was

Jason Duncan: interesting. Well, and And look how it turned out.

Jason Duncan: The winner, the winner history has proven was the [00:24:00] one who knows how to use the calculator, right? Right. It's not the one who knows how to use the slide rule. Does that make slide rule obsolete? Almost, but not necessarily. There's still people that need to know how to do that. Think about when the internet came.

Jason Duncan: Before the internet, before the worldwide web, what was our source of the world's knowledge? It was World Book Encyclopedia or Encyclopedia Britannica. For the most part. If you needed to know something, there were these, there's volume of books you would go pull. So data has always been available to us, but the way that it's given has been, has been changed over time.

Jason Duncan: So for anybody who would not lean into the World Book Encyclopedia or Encyclopedia Britannica just walked around ignorant most of the time. That's just how it was. If you lean into it. Okay. You became smart. You actually knew things and the worldwide web came around. Same thing. If you didn't lean into that, you got left behind.

Jason Duncan: Well, we're on that cusp of this new generation of new technology that synthesizes not only has access to the data, but can synthesize it into the specific thing we're asking. Or you can ask Google a question and it gives you 18 million [00:25:00] answers. Possible answers to that. Well, now AI can say, here's one answer that I think what you're looking for.

Jason Duncan: Now, it might, might be right, but it's, it's synthesizing it. So I think coaches, if you're gonna base. Stay relevant and stay in the game. You gotta lean hard into it. You gotta lean really hard into this. And it could be for simple things. I mean, I, I'll give you an example. We're, we're doing this on Zoom today.

Jason Duncan: Zoom has an AI function capacity for note taking and meetings. And I don't know if this meeting is being AI is. Recording it, but, but when I meet with the clients, I always do it on Zoom. AI in the background is pulling that data. It sends me an email after with a synthesis, you know, of all the things we talked about.

Jason Duncan: It's not a transcript, although I can get a transcript, but it's a synthesized version of what we talked about high level. I take that information and I go into my Claude project that I've created for my client, and I'll drop those in there and say, Hey, this was the session notes from today. I want you to look back at everything we've talked about, take.

Jason Duncan: At these session notes and turn into a [00:26:00] summary that I can send my client of everything we talked about, and then I send that client a summary. And then when I show up for the next session, I'll go in right in that con that conversation. And I could say to the C to, to Claude, Hey, I'm about to meet with a new client.

Jason Duncan: Here's a couple things that happened that weren't in the notes that have happened since the last time we talked. Gimme an outline of things that are the most important things for us to talk about today. Now, does the AI replace me? No, it helps re me remember. All the things that we've talked about that I might've forgotten about, I forgot this person's name or this situation that was going on, and it reminds me.

Jason Duncan: So AI needs to be leaned into, not run away from if you're gonna make it in the coaching world.

Kellan Fluckiger: I love that. And you know, when I thought about, and I don't know if five percent's right? I, I did it based on income and a hundred thousand and it occurred to me that there are three things that could easily prevent.

Kellan Fluckiger: A coach from doing this, and maybe there's more, but I summarize it into three. One is the, I call it the head in the sand problem, which is pretend that it's [00:27:00] not happening. And it, you might be surprised, but I've talked to coaches that say, ah, you know, it's, we all need human connection. I got that covered, no problem.

Kellan Fluckiger: And when I'm done talking to 'em, my thought is, yeah, and you're gonna be outta business in five minutes because of that attitude. You know, the, the, I'm pretending it's not happening while you drown. The second one is what I call the anti problem. You've alluded to this in a different way, and that's this.

Kellan Fluckiger: Imagine going into a casino and there are blackjack tables all over the place and they're $10 tables and you go to sit down, but you realize all the chairs on the $10 tables are taken by robots, and the only place for you to sit down is the high roller room and the Andy, there's 10,000 bucks. So it occurs to me that the ante to get into this game, and I don't mean necessarily financially, but the ante energetically and commitment wise to get in this game has gone way up.

Kellan Fluckiger: And the third way I describe it is the, the [00:28:00] embodiment problem. You can't coach who you aren. Talking about things is no longer gonna be effective. 'cause AI can do that faster and better than you can. And if you are not, like personal development's, a mountain without a top and we're never done, okay? But if you're not actively and powerfully engaged, if you're not really the embodiment, the truth of what you teach, especially when you're talking about behavior and attitudes and things like that, your, your history, your toast, and that climb is not a trivial process.

Kellan Fluckiger: And so those are the things, at least to me, that. Make it challenging or could make it challenging for someone to question their level of commitment. Level of commitment, and whether they wanna stay in this game. What do you guys think?

Ray Hagler: You know, I eventually think that it's not gonna be AI versus coaches. It'll be ai with coaches that know how to utilize it more. But the burnout, and again, it depends on where you're trying to go. And if you're just [00:29:00] traversing around the waves of opportunity trying to find clients, fit a niche, try to figure it out.

Ray Hagler: If you don't have a true problem that you're out here and capable of solving. You can have all of the questions, but if that passion isn't inside of it for you to go out here and do it, when you hit a few road bumps, you're gonna fall off the wayside and be done is what I think about it. But yeah.

Ray Hagler: Coaches are just going to always be the ones that can instill and I guess where it's talking about transmission, but pass along maybe a belief or, or see. I feel like ai, even though it can answer those questions, it may not be able to articulate what you know as you're asking AI particular questions.

Ray Hagler: Another person may look at you and say, well, why are you asking it a question? In that way, maybe you're lacking personal power. Maybe you're lacking a way, like confidence or something in the way that you're asking questions. If you're not able to articulate that to a, a client like, Hey, why are you asking it this way or doing, you may end up finding yourself just answering questions that they already know how to answer for themselves.

Ray Hagler: So if that makes sense there. See where I'm trying to go with [00:30:00] that.

Kellan Fluckiger: Jason, what are you thinking?

Jason Duncan: I think I, I, I think the investment that you're referring to that we have to make to stay relevant in this game is a legitimate conversation to have, but I don't think it's a high, as people might initially think, I don't think it's going from a $10 table to a 10,000 table.

Jason Duncan: I, I, I think it, it does require a little bit more, but. But you know, I pay a hundred dollars a month for Claude. You know that that's what I'm paying for. Claude. I pay $25 a month for Chad, GPT. It's my backup. And I usually only ask it like one-off questions about things. I don't, I don't engage it. Chad GPT gets hallucination problems significantly more than the, than Claude does.

Jason Duncan: So I'm spending, if I just look at that, 120, $125 just on those two. Then there are other. You know, I pay $50 a month for my Zoom, which has the AI built into it, and there's other little pieces that I'm using. I've got a CRM that's got some AI functionality built into it, and there's other programs. [00:31:00] So all in, I'm probably spending a few hundred dollars a month just to have access to things.

Jason Duncan: But the investment is not just the financial investment. I'm investing in How Well, like 10,000 was a placeholder. It was just, yeah, yeah. Well, but, but the investment that I'm making is about. Time, like I'm having to learn it. So for example, I was scrolling through Instagram a few weeks ago and there I follow a lot of the AI stuff.

Jason Duncan: So I'm always looking into it and there was an AI post or, or a post about ai. There's a carousel post about six prompts that'll change your life or something. And I thought, okay, cool. Lemme take a look at it. So I looked at 'em and I thought, you know what? These are actually really good. So I screenshotted those.

Jason Duncan: I sent them to myself, and then later I went in and. Pull those out, transcribe them, put 'em into my own AI prompt document that I keep as kind of a living document. And then I started using them one at a time. And dude, talk about transformation. The post and the AI itself didn't do it, but what it made me think about is time I invested into it, [00:32:00] it's like, wow, this is really good.

Jason Duncan: And so I engage with it. I've got one conversation in Claude that is just. About one prompt from that, that thing I found online and I just have an ongoing conversation. And what did that prompt do? Well, one thing it said, it showed me my limiting beliefs around what my business is doing and the fact that I'm charging half of what I should be charging for my Mastermind.

Jason Duncan: And it showed me that, you know, I should be earning this much instead of that much. And it's challenging me in ways that. I mean, heck, a human coach hasn't challenged me in a long time. Now, it doesn't replace human connection. We've already established that, but what it did do is make me think deeper, but I had to invest time and energy to get to that depth.

Jason Duncan: If you just sit down at your computer and type something in on chat GPT, it ain't gonna give you anything. You have to invest in how to use that tool. It's just like any other tool. I've got lots of tools in my basement, many of which I know how to use, some of which I don't. But if I do how to use it, I could probably do some pretty cool stuff with it.

Kellan Fluckiger: So that reminds [00:33:00] me, my son is a carpenter, but his real love is bespoke. Furniture and stuff with real exotic woods. And so he, he does that sort of thing as a master at tools. I don't even know how to hold to do amazing things with that. And it just reminded me as you, as you said that, so let's, yeah. You

Jason Duncan: can take that tool that your, you can take that tool your son uses and do nothing with it, but it does what it does.

Jason Duncan: It

does

Jason Duncan: in the hands of a master craftsman, it could do amazing things. AI is that thing, and we've given that amazing tool to millions of idiots that don't know how to use it, and they're treating it like a Google prompt. You know, they're just trying to ask Google a question and they're getting bad information, and they're making bad decisions and they're going in the wrong direction.

Jason Duncan: I, I, so it's a, it's a tool issue. It's how to use it

Kellan Fluckiger: is, is but the tool, but it's the, it's the courage. The commitment of the person to use it because, you know, a tennis racket hangs on the wall and you can be [00:34:00] alcaraz or whatever that fellow's name is. That and, and Djokovich that just played in Australia, I think.

Kellan Fluckiger: Or you can be some hack that used to play tennis in high school and that would be me. But, you know, you're right. It it's the willingness to invest the time and energy to become excellent with any tool. So let's ask a different question. What do you see as the, and you've already pointed to this already, but I wanna ask it explicitly.

Kellan Fluckiger: What do you see as the dangers? The pitfalls, again, in the context of coaching. Now, not just hacks, asking Google questions, but in the context of coaching, pitfalls, problems, dangers, call it whatever you want with this proliferation in this tool.

Ray Hagler: Maybe the leaning more towards the results. A lot of people take in AI as a belief system that it's just gonna be accurate every time.

Ray Hagler: It spits out an answer with no real testing of it, with no going in and trying to do a deep dive or actually getting data going, [00:35:00] putting it, putting it out there to see what the reaction is, and just taking that, it's given me this answer, so now I'm gonna go pass that out to people out here in the world.

Ray Hagler: And then if it's a big enough idea but doesn't hold enough structure, then it can eventually collapse under the weight of, you know, people trying to go out there and execute it, especially for clients. So I think just the trust factor in it, taking it for what it is and not really testing against it, is one of the scariest things that I see because it, it does hallucinate, it does think of things in a different way.

Ray Hagler: And if you're just taking it for what it is I find that that's probably one of the scariest things out there.

Jason Duncan: Yeah, I would agree. I think that one of the biggest dangers is that it can mislead whether it's intentional or not. We can have that conspiracy conversation, but it can mislead us to believe things that are true, that are not.

Jason Duncan: It can mislead us that something is a good idea when it's actually not. And the hallucinations are, [00:36:00] are. Amazingly stupid Sometimes I, I mean, I'll give you an example. Yesterday I was working on a prompt and I was in at GPT of course 'cause it's the worst. I think it's, I, I think second only to Gemini.

Jason Duncan: I think Google's Gemini's the dumbest AI on the planet. That's my opinion in the use case. Chad, GB T's probably second, but I was asking Chad, GBT to do something in a conversation that we've had ongoing for now, for a year. So it's, it's not new information. And I said, Hey, give this to me. And it, I can't even describe how dumb the output was.

Jason Duncan: It was insane how stupid it was. It had no, no connection to any reality of anything that we had talked about. And, and my wife gets mad at me 'cause I, I don't type a lot. I, I usually. Speaking to the microphone and my computer does it for me, speech to text. And so I'll be yelling, I'll be yelling at my computer and my wife laughs all the time.

Jason Duncan: You yelling at Chey Petit again? Yeah, I was yelling at Chey Petit again, like I don't give it, I give it tons of grief and treat it like a, you know redhead stepchild as the old [00:37:00] saying goes. But, but I, I think. I think what we've got to learn and and the caution here is that just because it says it doesn't make it right, it doesn't make it close to right, and it may seem right and it could still be dead wrong.

Jason Duncan: I'll give you an example. So I'm working on this event thing I told you guys about earlier as an example. I'm working on that today. Well, the first draft of the event. It gave to me, here's what you're gonna do at five o'clock, here's 5 45, 6 o'clock. And it was pretty good. I, I, I, and I looked at it. I thought, okay, that, that, that agenda will probably work with what we're trying to accomplish.

Jason Duncan: But here's what I said to it. I'm gonna read it. I want you to think about this like a professional event coordinator, and run this through possible unintended consequences or things that are gonna pop up that we wouldn't have thought about ahead of time to see if it still holds true. That's all I did.

Jason Duncan: I just said it. I just, I didn't give it new stuff. I just said, go, go back and reconsider. And it said, you know, good, let me pressure test this. Here's some things that would probably go wrong, and it listed seven things that would probably go wrong, and [00:38:00] some of the things was legit. Others were like, I'm not worried about that.

Jason Duncan: Probably won't happen. I think three words that everybody could use today. Listen to this show. That'll change your interaction. With any AI model is the words. Are you sure? So whatever you do, get your output and then type in those three words. Are you sure? Hit enter one more time and just see. Just see what it says.

Jason Duncan: Sometimes it'll come back and go, you know what? Right? You know what, Jason, I'm not, and here's why. I don't think you trust it first pass, never trust it, and I think you just need to go back and trouble and triple check. But it really is also quality of the prompt. And Ray, Ray kinda mentioned that earlier.

Jason Duncan: The quality of the prompt has a lot to do with it. If you sit down with a new window, just open a brand new chat window, no context, and say, I need you to show me how to do X or answer this question. You're asking the world's information. To give you, to give you an answer on something. You gave it no context around.

Jason Duncan: You didn't tell it how to act, you didn't tell it what to consider. You didn't sell the context. You just ask a simple [00:39:00] question. And that is leading people astray,

Ray Hagler: I think. So let's, oh, go ahead. Sorry. I just wanted to say one other thing on that too, that, it can almost start to take creativity away. It's who's the initial seed of inception for that idea and where's that thing gonna go?

Ray Hagler: If you're asking AI to be creative for you, instead of you have the initial idea, well, who, what? Whose original idea was that? And what are you going out there creating in the world? So that too is just not allowing it to take over your creativity, but being a tool to enhance your creativity.

Kellan Fluckiger: So I like that.

Kellan Fluckiger: In other words, if you're asking it to think for you and live your life for you, essentially in either small or large ways, it's gonna suck. 'cause it has no context for a life well lived. So I wanna throw this wide open now for the last piece here. We've talked about some specific things, how you're using it, what the possibilities are, what it might mean for coaching, what the dangers are, what else, what, what else is either a positive or a [00:40:00] concern.

Kellan Fluckiger: That you would wanna leave here in this conversation about the growth of AI in the context of coaching.

Ray Hagler: Well, I think AI can hand you a blueprint, but it's not gonna be able to necessarily build it for you. And then that's where coaches are able to come into. If you've got someone that can know where you want to go and come in and build a custom bridge for you to cross that gap that you can't cross by yourself that's what you should be looking at it for.

Ray Hagler: If you're a coach and you're out there, and if you're not able to build a custom bridge, come to creative solutions. Figure out a way to truly help someone. They're gonna be able to find that information themselves. So how can you help someone get the outcome that they are wanting to achieve and get to the place that they want to go without just saying that I can add value or add information, or I've been through it, or whatever these are that are gonna give surface level answers.

Ray Hagler: It's about creating real impact in people's lives and watching transformational growth. Then being with them as they [00:41:00] change. And I look at it too, not necessarily how can I gain more clients to coach, but I'm looking for business partners or joint venture relationships with people who may not have the education that I do.

Ray Hagler: How can we combine both of our skill sets together and make something even greater? How can I enhance your vision or how can we create a vision? Or maybe I've got a vision that I wanna pass out there, but I look for it more is creating joint venture partnerships with longevity and relationships.

Ray Hagler: Then how can I have somebody help somebody for like a six month thing here? And I believe that joint venture partnerships, people teaming up together under leverage or structured businesses, meet people that already have that. How can we come in and help those people get to where they wanna be quicker?

Ray Hagler: That's where some real value is going to be, and that's where clarity comes from the human mind. I think of it as Ray AI instead of ai

Kellan Fluckiger: Ray ai. I love that. Jason, what are you thinking? What else?

Jason Duncan: I love that Ray. You gotta, you gotta get that man. You gotta make that. I think you gotta

Kellan Fluckiger: use that. That's

Jason Duncan: great.

Jason Duncan: Ai. Good for you. So. [00:42:00] I, I think about it in story terms. So back in the late 18 hundreds, it would take you months to cross from New York to the West Coast months. I mean, you get on a wagon and go out there and you might die on the way. But the ability to go from New York to San Francisco was always available.

Jason Duncan: Like you could do it, right, you could do it, but it just took a long time and there were risks. In the, in the, the, the time that it took their risks. And then as the cars began to be developed in the early 19 hundreds, that time shrunk, but not, not nearly as much as you might imagine it still was weeks, if not months, maybe a month to get across get across this continent.

Jason Duncan: And then on the advent of the airplane. In the, what is that? Twenties. And then on into the thirties it became more popular for people to commercial flight. Now. Now you could fly across the country in just a couple of hours. A few hours, right? And then now we can fly to the other side of the world in less than a day.

Jason Duncan: So. [00:43:00] What have all of these things, what do that? What does all this illustrate? Well, it illustrates that the ability to go from one place to another has always been there, but the new technology just made it faster. And what we do with the extra time that we've saved what we do, lots of other things. Lives have been saved.

Jason Duncan: Relationships have been kindled. You know, new, new discoveries have been made because we've otherwise would've been spending months at a time in a wagon trying to get somewhere and now we have time to do it. So I look at AI as this new accelerator. We now can do all the information that AI has, we gave.

Jason Duncan: Right. I mean, AI didn't make this crap. I mean, it does make some stuff up, but it didn't make stuff up like it. The information that it uses to give us answers and to ideate and to come up with cool ideas, it has in its storehouse that was given to buy humans. It it has in its storehouse. So now all we're doing is getting access to it faster in a synthesized way.

Jason Duncan: So what do we do with that extra time? Well, as a coach, I used to, it used to [00:44:00] take a couple hours a week of prepping for meetings. Recapping meetings, sending session notes to make, and now, dude, it happens in the background when you thinking about it, and I might have to send one email and read it and make sure it's all good and then send it.

Jason Duncan: I'm talking minutes. Well, what am I doing with my time? I'm developing other programs. I'm thinking deeply about strategy. So I think that AI is this. Accelerator and I think we need to lean into it. And then I'll, I'll give one other maybe unpopular opinion about ai. I think AI hit its limit. I think we've already hit the peak.

Jason Duncan: This is my opinion. I think it's now cannibalizing itself. I think it's becoming dumber. I think if you don't know how to use it, you're gonna be, you're gonna be, if you've seen the movie Idiocracy, I think that's where we're heading. I think you should go look at if you haven't seen that movie, but I think.

Jason Duncan: AI has reached the limit because it can only operate with the information that we humans have given it. So it's not really artificial intelligence. It really [00:45:00] doesn't exist. It's just speaking back to us, what we've already said, but it's just synthesizing it. It's like math didn't get invented by this calculator.

Jason Duncan: Math was invented by, well, we could say God, and then humans figured it out and we put it inside this machine. Ai, I think we've reached the peak. I don't think it's gonna take over the world. I think it's gonna be just fine. It's only gonna get better to the extent that humans give it better information.

Jason Duncan: That's my opinion.

That's

Kellan Fluckiger: good.

Kellan Fluckiger: I love that. Well, thank you guys. I really appreciate your insight, sharing your heart, your love, your intelligence, and your opinions. Unpopular or not, I don't care. This has been really fascinating for me to talk to all, everybody and to hear this extraordinary diversity of, of thought that, that we've had.

Kellan Fluckiger: So, Ray, thanks for being here with me today.

Ray Hagler: Thank you, Kellen. Thank you Jason.

Kellan Fluckiger: Jason, thanks for sharing with me today.

Jason Duncan: It's been, it's been a lot of fun. I, I love chatting about ai, so this has been great. So thanks Ray. Thanks Kellen. [00:46:00]

Kellan Fluckiger: You bet. Listeners, I want you to take this opportunity and, you know, every Thursday we've been doing this now for a few months.

Kellan Fluckiger: The diversity is extraordinary, and the change in conversation just because of things that are already going on in the world is extraordinary. But here's one thing I know comes through as a thread. This is a tool. Ignore it at your peril. Lean into it as, as Jason mentioned, intend, start with the end in mind as Ray talked about.

Kellan Fluckiger: Make this valuable for you. Don't see it as a threat, don't get uptight. Decide if you're willing to do the work that it takes, and my opinion is a little higher than Jason's in terms of the effort, but whatever. Do it and make a conscious decision so that you can stay in this business if you want to, and either way.

Kellan Fluckiger: Move forward to create your ultimate life.

Kellan Fluckiger: You open your heart [00:47:00] this time around, right here, right now. Your opportunity for mass and growth is right in front of you. Every episode gives you practical tips and practices that will change everything. If you want to know more, go to kellen fluger media.com. If you want more free tools, go here. Your ultimate life.ca.

Kellan Fluckiger: Subscribe, share.