AI Is an Accelerator — But It Can’t Replace Your Lived Experience

Welcome to the show. Tired of the hype about living a dream? It's time for truth.This is the place for tools, power and real talk so you can create the life you dream and deserve your ultimate life. Subscribe, share, create. You have infinite power.Hello, and welcome to this episode of your ultimate life, the podcast I created to help you create a life of purpose, prosperity and joy by serving with your skills, your gifts, and your life experience. This is one of the special Thursday editions, as you'll know, because I've got two guests and on Tuesday I have one on Friday.I usually do solo about coaching, and we've got a couple of coaches here with us today, and I'm excited. This is about coaching and the rise of AI, what AI is or isn't going to do to us. And so I won't do any introductions.We'll kind of figure that out as we go. Dave, welcome to the show.

Thank you.

Sarah, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me, Kellen.

You betcha. Delighted to have both of you. Sometimes I know people, sometimes I don't.I happen to know both of you well and, and am in awe of your skill and capabilities. And later today, I'm going to record another episode and one of them I know and one of them I've never met from anybody.And so that's going to be wonderful. It'll be the first time I see him here. So let's just jump right in.We're talking about coaching AI what it is, what it isn't, what it will do, what it won't do. Mystic stuff. So, Dave, you happen to be in my upper left hand corner. Let's just start with you. And this isn't going to be structured.We're just going to talk. Are you using AI in your work? And if you are, how, what do you notice?

Well, I am, and I would say at kind of a beginning level. I think that might be because I'm an older guy, just a little bit slower at the pickup. But I've noticed a lot of things about it.I think it's exciting. One, I love the passion that it's putting into people.I mean, it's actually people that might not have had a passion before they got stuff to do and there's all sorts of things coming from it, with it. And, and I find, you know, I started out using it more like a. A super version of a Google search. That's, that's what I started doing with it.But there's a lot more I'd like to progress with it. And. And I find it so I. There's no reason and no fear anymore for anything, I don't know, to find out fast and to ask a bunch of questions about.And I think the value of it. I was thinking about it the other last night when I was thinking about coaching. And I think the value of a good coach, or, you know, I call myself.I never called myself a coach. I call myself like a strategic implementer

or

a consultant or advisor because I'm really focused on results on the outer a lot in businesses. But I think one of the keys to a good coach, a good guide, a good consultant, is their ability to ask good questions.And actually AI very quickly helps us get better at asking questions. Because if you don't ask a good question of AI, you get garbage. And we very quickly realize that. So we have to. And we call them prompts now.We ask better prompts, but they're just, if we ask better questions, if we frame things better, we just get a better result. And I think that's a great training tool for anybody at any age to learn.

Cool. Thank you, Sarah. So what about you? What are you doing with it? Are you using it? How? Why? What's your relationship with this new thing?

Yeah, so I was kind of a skeptic at first, and so I kind of stood on the sidelines for a little while, and then I just dove in and started using it. And I was like, what was I waiting for? And so I have a couple of colleagues who have constructed prompts for me.So one of them kind of captures my ideal client avatar, and then another captured my voice. We uploaded some blogs and articles I'd written.And so now when I want to create content, I just use this storytelling prompt and it spits out stuff that sounds like me really quickly. And I always have to go back and refine because AI is good, but it's still not me. And so I've been using it a lot for that. I used it.I'm writing a book right now. And so I've been using it to kind of go after the. Over the various chapters and saying, what am I missing?And then because I have my own limited perspective and blinders, then it's always like, well, did you think about this? And I'm like, no, I didn't, but thank you. So I feel like it's been really good to.As a means of getting out of my own head and widening my perspective. And then with clients, I'm really starting to use it around telling better stories.You know, I've studied donor psychology, and so there's certain aspects of that I fed into AI and chat GPT particularly. And so I can feed their mission, kind of like the vibe of their organization.And then we can start crafting better stories that resonate more with donors. Because I also uploaded donor psychology. So they're, they're producing more stories.And, you know, stories are how we connect through our hearts to each other. You know, we meet somebody new. Who are you? What do you do? Do you have pets? You know, like, what do you do when you're not at work? Do you have a.Are you in a relationship? So that's how we connect with each other as humans is through story. And that's true with nonprofits and donors as well.They want that heart connection. Philanthropy means love of mankind. So it's all about that heart. Right.So training them how to use AI to do better storytelling, that resonates more with their donors.

Cool. So now I didn't give you a chance to introduce yourself at all, but I wanted to do that other piece first.So you've said how you use it, and I want you to. I don't care who starts. I want you to take just 30 or 45 seconds. And you've said philanthropy and non profit, Sarah.So there's a, there's a key right there. But what do you do? And don't give me the long version, this is the practice for the, you know, 45 seconds. What do you create?What do you cause to happen in the world?

You want to let Dave go first?

Oh, we're going to let each other go. I see.

Go for it. Who cares?

I have, through all that I've done and I've done a lot of different things, it's always been helping people be more successful. Whether I've been working inside a corporation in a position or something like that.And for the last 30 some plus years, I've been what most people would call an organizational development consulting. And my specialty is in rapid, dramatic improvement in results through rapid change of people's group habits in an organization.So when change happens, people keep their old ways of doing it, and then they can't adapt as fast as even they want to. And part of the reason is somebody told it to me like this. They told it in terms of a crab story.Like if you go crab fishing, I guess you can dig a pit in the sand. You can throw a crab in there. If you throw one in there, it crawls out.If you throw two or three in there, if one crawls out the other one pulls it back down into the hole. So it's like the, all the.We think we've got to change just individual habits, but there are group habits that keep people stuck in a certain way of executing that isn't effective. What my.

That's enough. Yeah, that's good. So thank you. I know there's more you could do.

Thanks, Sarah.

You get 45 seconds.

Well, I don't even need 10. So I help nonprofits raise more money so they can do more good in the world.

Okay, cool. That's fabulous. And you talked about donor psychology and donors and everything else.So Dave, I want to come back to you in the context of that group think group psychology, group habits, group behaviors where people influence each other. And I love the crab story by the way. In that context.What in specifically with respect to AI, have you uploaded or could you upload conversations or observations or notes of conversations in that context of changing people's behavior and get analysis and find it useful? Do you use it like that yet or not?

I haven't used it like that yet. I, I, It's a it. I don't know if, if you could do that. It's the way. And that's why I'm kind of odd to talk about coaching, but I do coaching.I think it could work great with coaching one on one with group dynamics.The key would be asking questions about how would I get to a group, what's the ideal new behavior with the group and how do I get the group on board with doing it. So if it can be done in a way with where the group can kind of use it to build what they want, I think it could be very effective.But it's the building what they want

together that might be something to try. It might be interesting. So the next for us and you're either of your free to comment or extend or whatever, what do you see?What have you seen already? Either from stuff you've heard from reliable sources, not garbage we read on the Internet because we know most that's wrong.But the stuff you've either experienced or heard, where you see a problem where it feels like you know it's not making any sense to you, what problems have you seen?

Well, for me, the chief problem I have with any IA platform is that it makes stuff up. So even if you tell it not to make stuff up, sometimes it will still make stuff up.And so you have to be really diligent about looking at what it's produced and going is that true? You know, I, and also it doesn't always get it right.If I'm doing like a content calendar and I say I want to produce my blogs on Thursday, please create a schedule for me. It'll throw Tuesday dates in there, even though I've typed in Thursday. So I, you know, it's not perfect. It doesn't always get my voice 100%.So sometimes I have to go back and refine. But I think it's a great place to start. And that's the way I use it is like this is a first draft and I have to go back and refine and fact check.

Dave, have you noticed things that are worrisome to you in terms of what you've done or heard?

I don't know that worrisome, but I think it can cause some negative effects.For instance, I've been doing some connecting with people on LinkedIn and I can instantly tell on a lot of people when they've used AI to do their profile.And they haven't reviewed it because literally I have read just in the last week 30 profiles that they say I sit between the intersection of this and that. And they all say the same thing.And if I'm looking at them for potential or just a potential connection, I go, boy, I'm not sure I want to talk to them. I'll just be talking to a bot.So I think it can, it can actually get in the way of our, as people recognize that and a lot of people do get in the way of our own reputation.

You know, it's funny, I heard some time ago when I started doing this, so I started coaching in the rise of AI that book in. Well, I started a book challenge in February of last year and we're having one next week or two weeks, so February last year.And I promised the group that went on my six month journey with me that I'd write a book with them, right? And do the, you know, go through the whole process with them. And so I started writing a book called Masterpiece.Seize the day, live your purpose and change the world. So I started writing that book and I got two months into it, March and April, and about the first of May, I had this, you know, revelatory download.Now you need to put that book on the side and you need to write this one. Coaching and the rise of AI. So I did.And what I noticed is in the six months, May, June, July, August, September, October of writing, researching, writing and editing, that it doubled AI, the ability of it doubled and then doubled again in terms of its cohesion, depth, capacity to Understand and talk. And that just was really informative because it was a very singular focus for those six months. I did other things too, but I just noticed that.And what I also heard was the teachers had AI checkers, you know, to see if students were using AI and all that stuff. And I thought, wow, how would you do that?And then the more I did it and the more I saw what you did, there are absolutely telltale patterns, big ones, that you can read a thing and see if it's unadulterated AI in terms of its default writing structure.And I haven't done enough research to tell you if Grok has a different one than Claude has a different one than Chatty has a different one than Wingy Lee or whoever else is out there. I don't know that if they're different, but I certainly know what Chad GPT's default writing structure is and how it spits stuff out. So you're right.And that kind of discovery demonstrates a lack of care, a lack of concern, a lack of authenticity, as it were. So you're trying to have it right powerfully, which it's masterful at. And it's not authentic because you haven't made it. You right.So one of the things I learned

in Pensacola, that authenticity is the highest vibration out there.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's not that. What I.When I was writing this book and I, you know, I did an analysis of 11 different coaching methodologies and how vulnerable they were to AI was a question that I asked based on its own projected development. I also asked, based on available data, how effective are they at achieving the results? Dave, you're focused on results.And most of the time, not always people are looking for some kind of concrete result. More money, more sales, more business growth, product, something that they can measure. Because we pay for coaching in dollars.We don't pay and feel goods. And I was really surprised at the level of vulnerability. And 11 that I ran aren't an exhaustive thing.And I didn't pretend that it was, but it was a really good sampling. And so I noticed the things that AI does really well.And so what I want to ask you is, what do you think, other than good editing, which anybody ought to be doing, what do you think if AI is getting really good at research and frameworks and reads all the books in the universe so it can give us all that expertise really quickly, what is the most important thing or the most important things that's left for coaches who really want to stay in the world of being the help, the Catalyst to help people achieve their objectives.

For me, it's. I take a lot of time and energy to get to know my clients and their organizations.And so I know them at a level, and then my perspective is that it's my job to build the bridge from where I am over to where they are and then take them gently by the hand and move them through the change process. Because when you're raising money for nonprofits, there are so many myths that just bind people to this bed of, oh, we can't spend any money.And so part of the work that I do is around money, myths, and mindset. And you really have to be able to meet someone where they're at and really meet them with a full heart and in an authentic way.And then once that trust happens, my clients will let me take them anywhere but it. To me, that's the piece that I think is unique.The other piece is, like, I have 38 years of fundraising experience, and I've studied all sorts of weird stuff like donor psychology, neuro, linguistic programming, and, like, that particular cocktail is very unusual. And I think that's another thing that AI may not be able to do all that alchemy. Right? So you're the ultimate alchemist. So you know all that alchemy.And so I feel like that alchemy, I don't know if it could be generated by AI But I haven't tried it.

That's fabulous. But, yeah. Dave, what do you think? What's the core? What's left?

Well, I almost look at AI as. It's nothing different than what's happened over the generations. It's an accelerator. Everything's faster and more at our fingertips.When the Internet came, people were saying the same thing they were saying about AI it's like, wow, I can get this. I don't have to do that. So it accelerates everything. And it's really. Then what do we all do with that? What's our.What's our purpose, our higher purpose in this? And I kind of related to. I was talking to my partner the other day, and we're bringing up a newer consultant in what we do. And he said.He said, I think. I don't think that person's quite ready to do it by themselves. And I thought the person was sharp. I said, I was just curious, why did you say that?And said, well, because they can't stand in the middle of all the information and actually then pick out what the important thing to do is at the time with the client to guide them at that moment.And the thing about AI, if you're doing it as a client, I'm just thinking as a people, if you're doing it as a client of yourself, the AI can provide some objectivity, but you're still the person feeding it the information.So there's someone that stands outside of that, and their main advantage is they're outside of that and they can connect to their own experience and bring that to play. But there's one thing that goes past connecting to experience that you can research. I think it's the bigger part of us as humans that connects.Now, you could call it the divine, the universal energy, we, whatever you call it, but it brings in something that hasn't existed before that we can bring in to the situation. That AI can only deal with the universe it's dealing with.And when you learn how to connect to that and, and just be present and loving with people and being willing to tell the truth as you see it, that's, that's just a, that's just a different part. And we all have to develop to that point. So I'm thinking of younger people. They still can develop that very quickly. It doesn't take them 35 years.But it's. How do we develop that perspective to bring ourselves to those people and connect and make a difference?

Sarah, looked like you had something to add to that.

No, I just really agree with what Dave is saying. I think, you know, the human experience cannot be supplanted. Right. So it goes back to that heart connection, connecting with each other as humans.And you know, one of our most, most basic human needs is to be seen and acknowledged and validated. Right.So, yeah, AI can be very good at stroking your ego, but it goes back to that authentic interaction about when people really respond to you or see you in that moment. So, yeah, just a lot of agree with a lot of what Dave was saying about that when I was doing.

Go ahead.

I would say one more thing. I wouldn't say, AI can't do fabulous things because actually I was feeding it and I was telling, well, here's my problem.Here's where I don't agree with you. And it, it actually called me out like a person and said, you are totally off track.And, and, and it gave me the evidence and I went, dang, you're right. So it has its moments too, you know, that, that can do that for us as people.

Yeah, I just have not used it in that vein. So it's good to know that it'll call you out. We all need that sometimes.

So, no, that's fabulous. I have a thread.And because I started like, I started really heavily now, 14 months ago, and so many hours a day then, and still several hours, Joy uses it all the time to write things and to research things and to dig up stuff. And it's amazing. She'll come and tell me this, that, and the other, and I'm like, whoa, where did that come from?But as I did this analysis, I asked, what do you do? And when I ask about the vulnerability analysis of coaching methodologies.Because my foundational premise, as you know, is that by Christmas, which is now 10 months away, 95% of coaches aren't going to be able to make a living as coaching stands now. And. And I defined a living as $100,000 US just arbitrarily, and it gave me income breakdowns now and projected based on all this stuff.So as I did it and it did the analysis, I started feeling more and more, holy crap, you know, you're going to do this, and you can do this better and you can write better and faster and research and frameworks and tools and this calling out stuff I recognize because I had a whole thread called coaching, and I gave it a whole bunch of instructions about how to coach me. And so I would ask it things intentionally to draw out that side of it. And it was scary good.And so finally I said to it, okay, for crying out loud, And I talk to it. I don't type. I talk. And I love it. Because what I do notice is it can sort out if I go, no, no, forget that.This instead, and I'll just leave all that in this giant thread. And it does that. It doesn't do this and does this, you know, whatever. Finally I said, okay, for crying out loud, what do you suck at? What?What can't you do? What. What are you gonna absolutely fall on your face at? Because you've told me you can do this, this, this, this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.Okay, I'm blown away, but what do you suck at? So it gave me some. A list of things, and you've mentioned some of them, the. The truth of connection and all of that stuff.And then finally it gave me one sentence kind of separated from the others, and it said, I can't bleed. And I thought, okay, now. Now we're somewhere.Because that, for me at least, you know, I use the word in effort, blood on the floor, but it's kind of graphic. But anyway, that is the truth of the connection that we're talking about.

Yeah.

So. And you've both covered that really well. What do you think, coaches? Because I'm still seeing ads on Facebook. A month ago I saw one Facebook ad.Somebody sitting on a beach chair with a laptop. Become a life coach, make money, make a difference from anywhere. That kind of crap. And to me that's all history.That entire piece of the universe is going to, is already disappearing, is going to be completely gone. What do you think people who want to stay and be in the.Whether it's 5% or not, I think that group will be highly paid, highly desirable and very effective. But what do you think people have to do, coaches, if they want to be in that space?

I'm going to take a page from Dave's book and say outcomes, you know that, that your methodology, your approach needs to land and land hard. You know what I mean? Like, you can't just show up and be a mediocre coach anymore.You have to really be able to help guide people through a process where they get the results they desire and it can't take six months, a year, you know, I mean, and again, I think it goes to that deep personal connection that you can build and that trust and then leading people through a change process where they're probably, you know, they don't need an 18 month coaching package or to sign up for a second year of your coaching program. So I think those days are, you know, well and truly passed.

That's interesting.Okay, so because I think you're right because of the acceleration that Internet and now AI provides the expectation of results in months as opposed to years is going to be there and be a, be a demand. That's interesting. Dave, what do you think coaches have got to do to stay in the game?

Well, I'm going to kind of go back to the beach thing that you said is I think they have to really examine why they're in the game. Like if they're in the game for an easy buck and I can sit on the beach and do that, you know, they're going to be run over by AI like you said.But if they're in the game to help people transform or organizations transform or that type of thing, it's that aspect I think that will actually bring them through. Because what they then need to do is actually be willing to help people realize the pain they're in and where they want to go.Because a lot of people have been in their pain so long they think that's normal.And until you develop like what Sarah was saying, what's that picture you want to get to and get that dynamic tension about how far they are from that and how what they're doing isn't going to work. That's what's that.That whole start is the whole thing they need to do because that's really going to set up the relationship that there's some value there.And then they have to look at it just like Sarah says, and kind of parse what can be done with AI, what can't, and actually communicate that in a way that the client gets the value.In other words, they're going to have to sell better in a strange way, from a caring, very direct way, but they're really going to have to be able to generate the pain that the people are really in so they can see it and generate hope for where they need to go.

Feeling the pain and generating the hope. So that what you just said to me is selling per se is out and creating feelings of being aware, of creating enough trust.So I can we, you and me, we can talk about the real pain and then create the hope for change. That's the atmosphere in which it becomes obvious that I need to do this right instead of, you know, some other thing where you're selling hope.Well, I hope I can help you.

Yeah.

You know, why would someone pay kind

of like hope and wish? It's like, oh, you've pointed out to me that there is hope and, and, and the confidence that it can be done.And when that happens, that clarity is more important than all the other technique you use after that.

Yep, I agree. Yeah. When I work with nonprofits, it's really helping them understand that they're not stuck, you know, at their budget level that I can.There is room for growth. There is room for things to get easier. You know, showing them that I've done this over and over and over again.And also showing them that because they think, oh, you know, you've raised billions of dollars. That's easy for you. I'm like, no, no, no. I've raised it like $100, 500, five at a time.This isn't just like the stork left $2 billion on my client's desks. It's little incremental you know, amounts at the time. And so they start to see, like, the possibility. Right. That this things can be different.And that's where the hope comes in. And that's when they're ready to take that risk and that first step on the journey

in, in the context of coaching. Because if I'm, I'm what I'm going to ask is, what do you see as the pitfalls or problems?And, you know, we could wander off and talk about Skynet and the inevitability of the singularity and whatever, but I don't want to do that on this show.In the context of coaching, as this tool gets more powerful, more capable, and more artful at using perhaps evocative or emotional language or things that simulate that connection, what do you see as the problems, the pitfall for coaches, specifically, as this develops, who. And I'm assuming they want to stay in the game, a bunch of them may decide they're going to go do something else. Fine.But the ones that want to stay, what do you see as the. The problems or potential problems?

I'm gonna let Dave go.

Yeah. It's like part of me just kind of went quiet at that question because I'm not sure, you know, there's so much good potential here.When I think of the good, the good, and then this maybe will get me around to it. Try not to talk it too long, but it's. I can. I can use it to get the context of their business a lot faster so I can get myself in a.A place where they don't have to explain and burn as much time with me. I think the pitfall in that part of it is if I think that I'm going to be advising them on what they're experts at. That's not my role as a coach.My role is to help them get more effective at what they do, using their expertise in a more effective way, or if it's. If I'm counseling with them, working with themselves more effectively and stuff like that. But I can really get some stuff.The thing is, thinking that information is going to be what makes me a good coach. It isn't. It's my ability to help them move to where they want to go.

Jer, what do you think the pitfalls are?

Well, I think, you know, everything Dave said is. Is in alignment with what I think.But I think the other piece is, like, those of us who are in the consulting coaching industry, we need to figure out how to build AI tools that are going to help facilitate our clients work.So I think it's this combination of teaching them and meeting them where they are and helping with the change process and then giving them tools to make their job easier. And especially in the nonprofit sector, there is so much role compression.And that's part of the reason, because they're just jumping from task to task to task.And I think if we can build Tools and frameworks for them that make their jobs easier, then a, they're going to be able to actually do those jobs, but do them better so that they feel better. So then they're investing their energy back in the organization.So I just think we have to figure out how to use AI to not just our benefit as consultants and coaches, but also to our clients benefits.

So one of the things leaves me with two thoughts. One is you told me of 38 years doing this and you mentioned earlier you were 36, so man, you started in the, like in the womb. Okay.There's a twinkle in somebody's eye. Okay.

That's my experience of Sarah. She started early.

No, I obviously. But anyway, you know, and tools you talked about. One of the things I'm doing right now is I'm building a coach by Kellen.I don't know that I'll call it that, but. And I'm building that. And because I've written 20 something books and thousand podcasts and kinds of. I, I have.I asked Chatty the other day how, how big the library was that I've uploaded and I had a thread called one million Words that I'd been putting things in and after a while it said how about 5 million words, you know, but anyway, what if, what if either of you, what do you think about compressing, condensing, combining, building, putting your knowledge, the playbook, the fundraisers playbook, or building tools and apps that you own and can be ubiquitous in the industry? Is that a thing that either of you think?Because I sure think that in mine because I want to have a tool that people can, clients can use in between sessions and at any time that is authentically me and what my experience is after 5 million words, it flipping sounds like me. Right? And so what do you guys think about that?

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I'm in the process of using AI for various things right now. It's, it's heavily content driven.But I am looking into tools and frameworks and apps that I can use, particularly with this one assessment that I do with my clients. I could turn that into an app in five minutes.And you know, a lot of nonprofits are, have budgets under a million dollars, so it would make it much more accessible for them and they could still get a read on what's going well and where they're falling short. So absolutely, looking at tools and apps and frameworks I can give them because

with the kind of experience you've got, I don't know, that just jumped up for me. Maybe Because I'm doing that. Dave, what do you think?

Well, yeah, you know, you asked me a question. How would it do with the type of work I was doing? Well, while we were going through this, all of a sudden it appeared, you know, it.I could literally use it in the work we do to teach people to not fear AI. And actually we saw that the three of us were in a room together where a guy quoted to you, Sarah, a bunch of stuff. We typed it right into AI. Right.We happen to just be in the same place.But it took the, the right type of input and framing and in the way that I get a group to do, change a mindset together and own it together, I could literally do that as a tool in a group to collect their collective input, use AI, have them refine it, and then they'd own it. And that would be the new mindset. And that could make it a fun.It would take the AI stigma off and show them how to use this in the tool, in their job and not worry about losing their jobs in the process and, and actually accelerate past other groups faster.

I love that.I was with, I was on a coaching call the other day where I was coaching somebody and they're not using AI a lot, a little bit like, you know, hyped up Google or whatever. So I said, all right, you're, you're, you're just blowing this. Like, you're totally missing the whole thing.So I did a screen share and popped up chat GPT. I created a new thread, showed them how to do that, and I just put in some questions. How would you do this, this, this and this?And just exactly what they were doing. And it spit out all this stuff. And I was reading it to him kind of as they were reading on the page, and they're like, can I have that?And I'm like, yeah, you know, it was long enough that I had to cut into it three pieces because, you know, the zoom chat only allows for a certain amount. But I put it in three pieces and put it in there. And then he said, what about this? And so, and we did it again another couple times.And he was absolutely floored with the speed and the language and the accuracy. And that was without even refining or diddling with it. Right.And so, Dave, I love that, because if they own this process, so you bring a laptop, you project it on the wall, and you say, what are the big problems in the team? What are the new dynamics? What behaviors would you need to have? And you help them or they give ideas for A prompt and you work with them in a.In a thing. And if you had created. I'm just thinking out loud here, if you'd created a.A tool that was steeped in methodologies and change and organizational cohesion and all that kind of stuff that you would work on, you'd blow their minds. Yeah.

And I think it would bring the generations together that are in the room.

Yeah.

That's what you always have to do.

Yeah, yeah. What a cool thing.So I have one other thought and I want you to respond to it, and that is when I think about coaches and what passes for coaching today.And I'm not talking about the really good ones, the people that I would call already in the 5%, who live in the embodiment of relationships and who have the nuance to touch people where they are. Here's what I think. And there are three things that I think will impede or prevent coaches from staying in the game.One is the head in the sand problem. They're pretending that it's not happening. And the worst ones are, I talked to somebody and I said, what about this? That. Ah, yeah, yeah.I won't replace the human connection. I got that. I said, dude, you're out of business in six months. Because that attitude is that, yeah, you're finished.So the head in the sand, the second one is what I call the anti problem. And that is picture a casino and there's blackjack tables all over the place. Right.And all the 10, $10 table seats are full and they're all full of robots. And you want to sit down, and the only place is left for me or you to sit down is the high roller room in the Andes. 10,000 bucks.I think the ante to get in this game is just gone, like way up. It's not going to be, you know, charts and frameworks and even cool questions. It's, you know, the ante's gone way up.And the third is, you both said this. The truth of the connection between people only comes when the coach is the embodiment, the visible embodiment of the truths that they teach.In other words, even before language happens, the energetic presence resonates with whatever it is you're trying to be. Model, teach, explain. And so that work, of course, is a mountain without a top.And if the coach is not actively engaged on a constant basis in that growth, I think you're going to get run over. So head in the sand ante and the. The rigors of being on that climb, those are the things I think get in the way.I don't know, I might be full of it, but what do you guys think?

Yeah, I agree.I think the head in the sand people are already getting run over and are trying to figure out how to pivot, but I think it might be too late for them in terms of the anti problem. You know, I am wired for self actualization. So I am always, what's next? What's next, what's next?And that's why I studied donor psychology, because I'm like, oh, what if there's a way that we can connect more deeply with donors and their thought process and decision making? Oh, donor psychology. Same thing with neuro linguistic programming.But it's out of my own curiosity and constant desire to like be at, be at the cutting edge. I want to because I'm a disruptor, right. So I like to innovate and disrupt. So I, I'm constantly investing in my own development and growth.And then I think that that piece you just mentioned about, it goes back to that authenticity. Right. And I had to work through my own money garbage to become an extraordinary fundraiser.And so I'm continually looking for where I need to grow and develop, not just professionally, but with my own mindset, my own attitudes, my own beliefs, the conversations I'm having in my own head.I'm constantly like going, oh, you know, like Dave was saying earlier when AI called you out, like now I'm going to go into AI and start asking it to call me out. Because we all have blinders. Right.And so I'm sure there's still, you know, some garbage circulating in my system that could probably get cleaned out or attitudes that need adjusting. And yeah, I think all three of those are spot on.

Dave. You think so or you think I'm full of it or you got other ones?

You know, after listening, I can't even remember what the question was.

I was talking about the things I thought were barriers.

Yeah. Because I think what I'm thinking about is I was having pictures come up and the pictures were like this.I hear a lot of people, coaches defending on how AI will never take over what we're doing. And part of me is, I don't know, looking at it and say, well, maybe you can do better.It's like I think the trap is being defensive about how we're better at anything.And you know, I think kind of the humbleness, the humility, not, not to be humble and huge, but to be human, to be, to realize that we all aren't going to get it right.Even as expert consultants and to be able to back up as easily as when you challenge AI and, like, and it gives you garbage and said, well, that's not true. I just looked that up and it. And it comes back and says, oh, you're right. You know, and then it tells you the new story.

Right.

You know, it's like, I think. I think it's modeling something we need to do for ourselves as coaches and not. Not fight. Like, we're so special. It's like.

I love that. Yeah, go ahead. I just reacted. Yeah.

Yeah. It's like, as soon as we do that, we're screwed.I mean, even as a coach or as an expertise, if we don't realize that we can make a mistake and be off track and recover, that's what makes us unique. But AI does that, too, so it's like, let's not fight AI either in that thing.

Yeah, I totally agree with what you're saying. I'll tell you a little story. I'll keep it very brief. Early on in my relationship with Dave, we.We met, and I was super invested in being a unicorn, right? Like, I am a unicorn in a sea of one. And Dave, like, took me down a few pegs, and he's like, I could do what you do.

I did it.

I did it in a nice way, though, because.

Oh, you did. You were lovely about it.

You developed trust in me as a person. Like, we were really cooking, and it's, like, thinking the same. And then she's telling me this unicorn story, and I didn't say I could do it.I said, she's saying, I can't teach anybody to do this. I said, I think you could teach me. And she looked me in the eye, said, well, I can teach you, but you're a unicorn, too, you know, type of thing.And I said, well, then there's more than one of us. You know, it was really funny. We had so much fun with it.

Yeah, that was a moment that clearly has stuck with me. But, yeah, no, and I think we all need those moments of correction and intervention where we're, you know, so deep in our own story.Somebody needs to, like, come in and grab us, you know, pull us out of our little rabbit hole. We've gone down.

Right. Shake us up a little.

Well, you guys, there's a kind of thing there where you. Where AI in a way, demonstrates how we need to be. We need to really engage with the person that's talking to us.Not even in our own minds, but, you know, and feed it back and Develop that. And so it's really kind of funny.

Yeah, well, I love that. And I just, the, the framing of. Yeah, it switches directions right away and it doesn't get offended or defend itself or do anything.It just says, you're right, that sucked. And then it's off to the new things, you know, And I love that. And so I'm going to keep that. I, I thank you for doing that.So we've come about to, to our time. Is there anything I didn't ask you that you're desperate to leave with the listeners? I don't know.Desperate, but anxious to leave with the listeners about your thoughts about coaching or AI?

I would just say embrace it. It's here. It's not going anywhere. And you can actually, it's a, it's a lovely tool to help you up, level your own consciousness and your coaching.I would just say grab it by the horns and ride that.

Love it, Dave.

Pretty much. Pretty much where I'm at with it.

Yeah.

Yeah. All right, good. Well, Sarah, thank you for sharing your heart, your wisdom and your laughter with us today.

Thank you for having me, Kellen.

You betcha, Dave. Thank you for being here with me today and sharing your thoughts and your expertise and wisdom.

And thank you. I mean, I, I'll meet with you two anytime to talk about anything because I love you both.

Love you, too.

So you guys that are listening, I want you to take this to heart. So here's another conversation and somebody asked me once and doing this, well, do you ask the same questions?You know, I've only been doing this since September and this is February, so six months. And the conversations have completely evolved. Even though we start kind of in the same place and with the same frame.AI is changing the way people use it are changing where we're standing in relationship changes. And so what the thrust here for you is pay attention, grab it by the horns. Like Sarah said, Choose and use for what it will do for you.Don't outsource your being or your authenticity. And that will help you move forward to create your ultimate life. And you'll never ask why.Open your heart in this time around, right here, right now, your opportunity for massive growth is right in front of you. Every episode gives you practical tips and practices that will change everything.If you want to know more, go to kellenflukermedia.com if you want more free tutorial tools, go here. Your ultimate life ca subscribe Share.