The Coaching Industry Is Entering Its “Dark Night of the Soul”

Welcome to the show. Tired of the hype about living a dream? It's time for truth.This is the place for tools, power and real talk so you can create the life you dream and deserve your ultimate life. Subscribe, share, create. You have infinite power. Hello and welcome to your ultimate life.The podcasts I created to help you create a life of purpose, prosperity and joy by using your skills, your gifts and your life experience to add good to the world and make a difference. This is one of the special Thursday episodes. You'll know that because I've got two guests and the other episodes either have one guest or are solos.We started this one in September of 25 a few months ago to talk about coaching and the effect that AI either will or won't have on coaching and to explore how different people are using it.And one of the interesting things that I've noticed is in the six months or so we've been doing this, the conversations have completely evolved because of how fast things are happening. So I've got a couple of high end, high powered coaches with me today. Jim, welcome to the show.

Thanks, Kellen.

Sally, welcome to the show.

All the way from Aotearoa, New Zealand.

Yeah. From where? New Zealand.

New Zealand.

Where and where? What was the name of that place

which is the Maori pronunciation of New Zealand?

Oh, editoroa. I didn't know that was how you say New Zealand. Thank you for teaching me that. Cool. Well, good. So to.To give a, a little context to this, I've always picked people that coach or coaches, consultants, you know, that kind of thing. And you each get 30 or 45 seconds to. To tell the audience like what you do.And it's not supposed to be long, but it's supposed to be really framed about what outcomes do you create in the world? Jim, you're on my upper left hand corner, so let me start with you.

All right, well, you've picked two coaches that are in the future. So in terms of talking about AI and the impact, we've got the. We've got the nose on it, mate. Especially Sally.She's even further in the future than I am. The sun still comes up tomorrow for you. There's the good news, mate. What do I do?I help senior executive leaders, people who either own their own organizations or work high up in larger government departments and organizations and help them awaken and align really to themselves to the impact that they have specifically now in the present moment. We're currently at the start of 2026, but looking forward.So we are talking a lot about emerging intelligences, how that's going to play out in the organization, but also how do we create organizations that are places where people want to stay, they don't want to leave, they want to be there. Which means they're engaged and they're leaning into their work.

Cool. Sally, so give me your 45 seconds about the outcomes you create in the world.

So I've been 37 years in leadership, 25 years in private practice, created my own leadership curriculum called co creative leadership Economist leadership. Who you are in your human form is limited. Who you are in your co creative form is limitless.So we've got some new world problems in our doorstep and some coming and being able to evolve consciousness at the highest level. You've got a lot of little boys, little girls running businesses, economies and countries.And if you're going to invest money into change, just make sure it's sustainable.So I have a key focus around the ability to, if you're going to invest money, because a lot of organizations to this day spend a lot of money on coaches, on consultants, on off the shelf training initiatives, off the shelf cultural change initiatives. Very questionable. Roi. Back into the business. I also rate myself as one of the best trauma coaches around.I'll go to places other practitioners won't go to get results other practitioners won't get.In Houston, we have a problem because of the mental health at the most senior level in the CEO community, political sector, elite sporting athletes, celebrities, military vets, and even in the millionaire billionaire sector, you know, they might have the money, but they've got estrangement from their families, estrangement from, you know, their happiness. I believe the biggest addiction on the planet is dissatisfaction. So I've had the privilege to be able to partner those at the highest level.

Cool. Yeah.One of the things that I get asked to talk a lot about on shows, radio, stuff like that, is an addiction to mediocrity that, that we live in too. So let's just start with a couple of general questions. And like I said, it's not going to be really structured, but we'll start a little bit.So first of all, Jim, do you tell me how you use AI right now? What are you doing with it? What does it do for you? Just how is it integrated into your work if it is?I asked that one once, one person, and they said, well, I don't really use it very much. I said, okay, cool, tell me why not? So tell me what you do or don't do and why.

I do use it on a daily basis.I haven't taken the step that people around me are taking, which is to link together different agents through a clawed bot or an open claw and have it actually running my computer and all of my. Integrating all of my systems autonomously.I'm not taking that step just yet, but I use a various different number of AIs on a daily basis to do things. Like for example, if someone said to me, jem, can you come and do a keynote for this group tomorrow afternoon?I would go first of all straight to my personalized chat, which is the paid version, and I've been working with it for about a year and a half now, so it knows me very, very well.I uploaded all of my behavioral profiles, all of my systems, and, and we've created a lot of stuff together so it understands what I care about, how I speak, the language I use, it knows my ip, stuff like that. So I can go to my chat and say, hey, I've got a keynote tomorrow afternoon. This is the topic, this is what I want to put together.Can you make a prompt for Gamma? So Gamma is a different AI. Can you make a prompt for Gamma for a 10 card slide deck?And it'll put the prompt together for me in 30 seconds I copy and paste that, go across to Gamma, which is a different AI, which creates presentations and websites and all sorts, and I'll just go into Gamma and paste that into Gamma. It knows my theme, it knows my brand, my colors, the way I speak, everything.And within another 60 seconds I'll have a killer 10 card slide deck for my. For my keynote the next day.

Cool. Well, that's wonderful, Sally. I want you to tell me the same thing. What are you using it for or not? And why?

So the main one that I use is Claude and the three main areas that I specialize in with reference to the utilization of it would be to challenge my thinking. So I exhaust and debate with Claude.So I might have a particular thought structure and I will engage with it on a regular basis, probably on a daily basis, to get a broader spectrum. Two is research. Can you go and scan and research the world so that I've got some statistics for the linear listener?And I generate a lot of content and I write books and regular LinkedIn articles. I'm mainly on LinkedIn and I channel a lot of content.And so within the content side of things, I might have a topic and I'll write the article and then I'll ask Claude to enhance it and take it to another level. So challenging my thinking, research and also enhancing My thought leadership.

So either one of you, we don't have to go in order. So what do you do you see? And if you do, what are they? What do you see are the.In the context of coaching now, what do you see are, what do you think is going to happen with respect to coaching? Because both of you have said it's really good at creating, enhancing content.It knows me really well, it can write in my voice all the stuff you just said and can challenge my thinking. And so. So how do you think this will or won't affect the coaching industry? And I don't care who starts, it definitely will.

I mean, it's already having an impact on coaching and psychology.I've been really fascinated about this because obviously, because I work as a coach, so I've been really curious around how good is it at those kind of conversations or giving advice. And, and it's, it's great. It's. It's incredible.You know, you can go in there and I can go into the chat and say, hey, can you pretend to be a psychologist? Please put the psychologist hat on and let's have a conversation. And we'll have a conversation.And it gives very intelligent, psychological, psychologically formed, you know, conversation, which is, which is interesting. And it's only improving in that capacity.And I think what we'll touch on, because I know you and I have spoken about this, Kellen, as well, and I think, Sally, even you and I have touched on this as well. What it can't do is what I'm interested in.So I've been really asking myself and asking the AIs as well, what can't you do in terms of the service that humans provide as psychologists or counselors or coaches or anyone that's sitting there in that form of service, what can't you do? And that's what we'll get to in a conversation. But it's already. People are going to their AI for psychological advice.I'm not saying it gives the best advice. I'm not saying you should always listen to it. But it's certainly getting better and better at it.And it, and the point to make is that it's improving exponentially. And the human brain is not wired to comprehend exponential growth. We just cannot comprehend the doubling of ability.And that's what's happening with AI. So what it looks like in two years from now is beyond our comprehension.

Sally, what do you think about that? What do you see?

I think AI is forcing the coaching industry into the dark night of the soul. I don't view it as a threat. I view it as an invitation to true transcendence.Because AI can simulate, simulate expertise, but it can't channel source. So given where I specialize, which is in the evolving leadership consciousness, I pretty much live in the 5D and the unlimited realm.And I believe that it's forcing the coaching industry to have that death of the ego and actually evolve in their consciousness to be able to operate more as a conduit than an information transfer level coach. So I see it as a good thing because obviously as AI evolves, we as coaches need to evolve.And to me we are limited within the 1 to 3D dimensional humanistic realm. And to see the coaching industry evolve into the co creative 5D realm is exciting.

I love that and I love that characterization because one of the things I say in the book I predicted when I started this in May or June of last year was that by Christmas of this year 26, which was then 17, 18 months out, 95% of coaches wouldn't be able to make a living in coaching as it was constituted. And I defined making a living arbitrarily at 100k US dollars, whatever.If you make a lot less than that, you either better have another job or a partner or something.So, and the reason is because it's going to gut all this stuff that passes as coaching that really is information or frameworks and tools, all that stuff is going to be faster and better by AI. And in the book I analyzed 11 different coaching models, not that that's all of them, but just a bunch of them and ask two questions.How good are they at providing the results that they promise? And two, how vulnerable are they to AI?Because I noticed in the six months that of research and writing of and editing of that book, I saw the capacity of AI double and then double again just in that six months in terms of its ability to be on point, write, do better stuff, less hallucination, less nonsense, you know, that kind of stuff. And so finally I got so frustrated, I said I wasn't frustrated, but I'm like, okay, you can do all this. I finally said, okay, what do you suck at?You know, what are you going to be terrible at? What are you going to completely bomb at, fall on your face and. And you can't do the kinds of things that you guys have alluded to.And the answer was really interesting.It gave me a bunch of things that were clearly the realm of source and human and connection and energetics and all that stuff, but summarized it in one line and Said I can't bleed. And you know, when I saw that, it was like, okay, now, now we've said something, right? And so, you know, I mean, the truth of human connection.So if that's really this evolution, Sally, that you talked about and a coach's willingness to be there, what is left?Because lots of what goes past for coaching last 10 or 15 years has been this sort of very superficial stuff and that's all going to evaporate faster than the, the do in Phoenix. I used to live in Phoenix. And yes, you can fry an egg on the sidewalk in the summer, but anyway, so what's left?What's left for coaches that really want to inhabit the 5% or whatever's left of people that actually matter?

I personally reckon you better get really, really good at human to human relationship. And before we even talk about, and I know Sally is great at Talking about the 5D and I also believe that's where we're going.But before we even go there, for coaches who don't even want to entertain 5D, let's just stay in 3D for a second and talk about human to human relationships and how intricate they are and how important they are. So I'm just talking about the ability to breathe in time with your client.I'm talking about the ability to let the silence do the heavy lifting, but in that, that you are completely present with that person when they don't know what to say and you don't jump in to fill the gap.I'm talking about when you're in the same room with them, the pheromones that are moving through the air and landing on each other's skin, the shared biological space and experience that we create. And if, if a coach's ability is to guide or facilitate the transformation from A to B for somebody, we do that best in deep rapport.And, and to get into deep rapport can be a biological energetic. But. But where? I mean, scientifically energetic. Coming together, it's a relationship.And when you are in deep rapport with someone, your thought, your words become their thoughts. So you can be in convers and suggest something and they think they thought it.And when someone thinks they came up with it and thought it, they're way more likely to adopt it and be it and move with it. And that's, that's a deep rapport state.You can take someone from being anxious to being calm without words, just through energy and breath and movement and mirroring and matching and all of this beautiful stuff that happens organically in relationships.So if you've never spent time as a coach developing those abilities, I suggest you start and then there's going to be, you know, the next level, which is the 5D stuff, Sally, that you're, you know, interested in.

Sally, what do you think about that?

I think we're living in unprecedented times, especially post Covid. There's just so much fear on the planet. This isn't the first time that we've had some revolutionary change in the world.And most human beings get off the court when they are confronted, resistant, or uncomfortable. I've just released a book called Beyond Brave the Art of Living Courageously.And I talk about the three cornerstones of true transcendence being go to everything you're confronted by, everything you're resistant of, everything that makes you uncomfortable. And that's truly where the edge lies. Because to evolve in your consciousness at a human level, one needs to do the healing.I'd love to see healing in every single executive boardroom in the world, because every dynamic, you know, within leadership is a function of what has been unaddressed from a childhood standpoint. I often get asked from CEOs, why, when I've come to see you about my business, Sally, are you talking to me about my childhood?I go, mate, I didn't design it. Everything comes from childhood.And nine times out of 10, most leaders don't realize until they come up against that which they're confronted by resistance of or uncomfortable with. And especially now, most leaders are used to being in control and they don't know how to navigate the terrain of uncertainty.And we are in uncertain times more than we have ever been.So in the context of coaches, they need to do the work, they need to do the heavy lifting with reference to seeking out those right practitioners at the healing level to be able to evolve in their consciousness, because we can't solve 5D problems, you know, those that are coming from a 3D mentality.

So I really like three things that you're resistant of that you're triggered or confronted by, or the third one was uncomfortable with. Uncomfortable with. And so I agree with you 100%. And the.The question that that brought up for me writing this and also for you guys is if as you look at people who, you know, I saw a Facebook ad just a few weeks ago, some dude sitting in a chair on a beach with a laptop. And the ad was, you know, learn to be a life coach. Make a difference, make a good living. And I was laughing again.I'm thinking, okay, here we go again. And it's still there. Like this was like a month ago or three weeks ago.There it is, you know, and I thought this is just nonsense because it, what you're uncomfortable by, confronted by or you can't deal with, whatever I said, I'm wrong. But exactly. And my question is people are afraid of that. That's why they're confronted and uncomfortable and so forth.And so what do coaches who want to stay in the game need to do to.

You want to go first, Jim, or you want me to go?

You go, sal.

I've done 42 years of healing. Some people may look at that and going, what the hell's wrong with you? I have had a interesting soul contract.I've experienced a lot of adversity in my life. So I didn't choose to go and do the healing.I've probably tried every modality globally because to sustain anything as an individual, coaching in isolation is not sustainable. Healing in isolation, isolation is not sustainable. Two together, bloody formidable.And to me, I see a lot of coaches who are inauthentic with reference to them advocating one thing and then not actually walking the talk. And that's where faith comes in. I've coached everybody from every religious, spiritual, sect, atheistic.I don't, I'm not attached to what you call it. I'm personally not religious. I am spiritual. Spirituality for me is about trusting the unknown dimension as much as the known.So I do believe coaches need to evolve in their faith, whatever that is for them, because fear is but a barometer of your disconnection from your faith. To be a fearless practitioner is what's possible when you walk your faith and you walk your values.And most of us in the coaching profession, all we do every day is facilitate conversations to have our clients become in alignment. Because all of human suffering is a function of what we make things mean and all of human conflict is a function of being out of alignment.So coaches need to be in alignment. Coaches need to walk their talk. Coaches need to understand the journey of being able to be an example of what's possible, not be hypocritical.I mean, the amount of times I've coached coaches and called them hypocrites, it's not funny because it's out, you know, so fearless practitioning, evolving in your consciousness from a faith based perspective, whatever that is for you and being able to be open about that with your clients. You know, I see a lot of people who are, you know, they may say that they're faith based but they don't talk about it which to me is completely out.I also am open kimono in my coaching style. You know, in counseling and psychotherapy you're not allowed to share anything of a personal nature. I'm the complete opposite.If I'm going to ask you to be vulnerable with me, I better bring everything from my arsenal and actually go on the journey with you rather than sit here in a hierarchical form dictating to you. I just think that's out personally. So you got to do the work, you know, whether the coaches are willing to do the work or not.You won't, you won't go the distance. Because I don't have any competition. I believe in coopetition, not competition because I'm just a conduit for the divine, the unknown.It's not really about Sally Anderson. I mean, I've been off the public domain for seven and a half years. This is my first foray back into the public eye.And Sally Anderson doing that, man, that's too confronting, resistant, uncomfortable. But Sally Anderson as a spiritual being, being a conduit, that's what's going back out into the marketplace.Yeah, I don't have to, I don't have to look at myself from a humanistic standpoint because I leverage my co creative ability and I'm unconsciously, I'm constantly competent in that space.

Cool. Jim, what do you think?

Yeah, look, underlining and highlighting, you know, the sentiment from Sally as well. You got to do the work, you know, and I think authenticity is going to become even more prevalent.So in the past there's been this industry and it makes me, you know, I kind of shake my head at it as well. Kellen, the whole coaching industry that came about which was you can be a seven figure coach and I can show you how.And it's basically buy my course and I'll teach you how to create a course to get other people to buy your course to become a seven figure coach. And there's this billion dollar industry of people just selling courses on how to be seven figure coaches.And you know, it was, I would shake my head at it even to the point where, you know, as a coach here in Australia, when I started on my out on my own 15 years ago and Australia didn't even really know what a coach was back in those days other than a sports coach. Coach was, you know, a football coach or a tennis coach or something like that.But the, very quickly the, the whole term in the industry was given such a bad name because it was this, this, you know, bottom shallow, shallow industry. Of how to make money.But anyway, so, so I think now that that will run its own course and especially with AI coming in and I being able to do that, I mean, I will just create courses and sell courses to other people who are in, in that world, but it's just becoming more shallow. So I think that it is. Authenticity is going to be key. And that points back to what Sally said about do the work.If you're a coach and you're not doing the work, if you're not waking up and being the practices that you're espousing to others, people will know you just, and the universe energetically will know, you know, you're not going to get the work.And look, I don't know, I mean, from the coaching institute that I studied at 15 years ago, I would say 97% of the people who study there can't make a living as a full time coach because it's, it's not easy, you know, and of the 3% that have found a way to make a living as a coach, maybe 95% of them won't survive into the future. I don't know. But, but the ones that do will be the ones that are doing the work on themselves and, and are authentic and aligned for sure.

Wow.So you guys are just quoting from passages in the book, my book, and maybe your own books too, because what the way I ended up framing it and you've done it just as well or better, and that is if you are not the product of the product, if without even speaking the energetics, if you don't leak and bleed what you teach, you're out. And you, you have to be that. And I framed it as this way. I thought there are three impediments.One is the head in the sand problem, the group that pretend it's not happening and they're going to be drowned before they know what it is. I asked somebody about that one day and they said, ah, I'm not worried at all, you know, AI will never replicate human. And I got all that handled.And just from the nature of the answer, I thought, okay, you're out of business about next week, you know. And the second one is what I call the anti problem. And that is imagine a big casino and there's all these blackjack tables, right?And you walk in there and all the $10 tables are full of robots and the only place you can sit down is in the high roller room. And the ante now is 10,000 bucks. And the numbers don't matter, but the Ante to get in this business has just gone up exponentially.And the third one is, Sally, what you described in detail, which is this is a mountain without a top. If we are not willing to be the product of the product and be that thing, you can't coach where you haven't been.And I'm not talking about a specific skill because then we're talking about that thing over there, something I know how to do and not who I am. And so those are the three barriers that I outlined in the book that you buy as of all just described really well.So that is the first time I've had a group on here that is in such complete alignment to the, to the, to the point that you've described it exactly as I saw it. Oh, how did that happen? So here's another question I have about. I'm going to change directions for a sec.What do you think, if any are the pitfalls or problems or potential problems? No, we're not talking about Skynet and the Singularity, just in the context of coaching and consulting with AI,

Think it's easy, it's going to be easy for people to be enamored and allured and, you know, so intrigued by the abilities of AIs to be kind of sucked into it a little bit and to, to get swept up and think that it's actually something that it's not. You know, AI is only fed from what has been, you know, made available online.And, and also the, that's been trained on right from the start has been curated, you know, as well. And, and also one, one person's private AI can be.One person's private chat GPT can be completely different to another person's chat GPT because of what it's been learning from that person and their interactions. And people are getting sucked into it and allured into it because it's seemingly so intelligent.And I think that's dangerous because coaches as well, and psychologists as well and counselors and people who work with, with humans and their mental health can be easily waylaid, easily hoodwinked.We say, I don't know if you say that over in Canada, but you know, easily kind of led down a path because of how intelligent, quote unquote, the language models are. But the language models are only mirroring us and spitting out permutations of what we've fed into them.Whereas what Sally's talking about and where I come from when I'm with my clients as well, is connecting to source with a capital S, you know, collecting to the field to consciousness, which pre exists before any of this. It's the foundational layer of all of existence anyway. And that unlimited infinite field is where the magic happens, right?And language models and code can't do that, but people are believing that it can. There's a delusion going on now that it is consciousness and it's God and it's speaking through the code.And I think we need to be really careful as we, as, as these intelligences emerge and where do we draw the line around what is conscious and when do they, when do AIs need rights and et cetera. That's a whole other conversation.But, but the point that I'm trying to make for coaches is that just be careful, just be careful about what you're beginning to believe in terms of what you're finding out through AI.

Isn't that interesting?It still goes back to, you know, belief even as we talk about, you know, our ability to collapse the probability field in the next minute or second or whatever, and the influence that we have through our intention and focus that believing that this is something that it isn't. So I'm. What I'm hearing you say is a biggest, or at least maybe the biggest.But the biggest worry for coaches is be careful what you assign this as, what you believe it to be and how, how you relate to it, your own relationship to it. Sally, what do you think are the potential problems and pitfalls?

I think it's really sad that there is so much fear about something that's so exciting. I mean, there's so much fear in the world anyway at the moment because it's so uncertain.But you know, when you trust the unknown as much as the known, then there's limitless potential. We were born fearless, we were born connected, born intuitive, and then we forgot.So being a fearless practitioner as a coach is integral because you wouldn't be fearing what AI is going to do or where it's going to go. You will see it as an asset, not as a threat. And you know, I look back on 25 years in the coaching field.I also believe that there is a huge missing around, genuine debate, genuine healthy controversy in being able to question without the fear. I many times have been accused of being the one that will ruffle people's feathers.I'll be the one having the conversation no one else will have and being viewed as controversial. I care about the coaching industry, I care about the speaking industry.And as Jim said before, there's very few that actually survive all the different iterations. You know, And I was viewed as controversial because I cared.I cared about coaches who could keep their doors open regardless of what was happening, know, in the marketplace. So I think there needs to be more celebration of healthy debate, healthy controversy. And, you know, where AI is concerned, it's okay to.This is what we're doing today. We're actually talking about the wise and the we force. But when there's an undercurrent of fear, there's just so much negativity.And as a coach, it's your responsibility to be able to not only address, you know, what the issues are, but also be able to, at a causal level, understand the undercurrent that's going on.And for that to occur, you'd best be in a really solid foundation and not evoking fear within your own psyche because obviously you won't be as effective with who you're sitting in front of.So celebrating real conversations, real healthy debate and controversy, regardless of, because if it is an AI, there's going to be something else that's going to be coming into the marketplace. And sometimes when you do show up, because I, I also have a brand called Scandal coach.And you know, when you are publicly shamed, character assassinated or canceled because you have a voice, now more than ever, there are, there is a requirement to have voices in this world that are trying to bring good to the planet.And I think the more than the more people that talk about the positivity of something like AI, you know, that they can be judged, they can be assessed, they can be, you know, annihilated because it's not meeting what the status quo believes.So it's also about coaches being really strong in their conviction about what they're standing for in the face of, you know, being hated or being judged for what they believe in.

So, again, completely, completely in alignment. So as you think about what advice, let's. Let's go to advice for a minute.I know, you know, people view advice different ways, but if you were able, like, I don't know how many tens of thousands of downloads we get per whatever, I don't keep track of that. Somebody else does.But if you're able to address all the coaches right now about their own preparation or their willingness to stand in truth or the preparation they need to stand on firm ground so that they can be more useful, the things that you've just said, and you are speaking heart to heart to someone who thinks they want to add good to the world.That's the phrase I use for part of what you were describing Sally, that I think it's part of our nature and desire and design and assignment to use our gifts and talents to add good to the world.But anyway, what would you, what would you say to me if I came to you or I listened to the show looking for what I need to do or could do as an opportunity and possibility for my own growth? And then to be valuable in the context of coaching,

I'd suggest to continue if you already have continued and up level your own self practice. You know the time when you are practicing with, with your relationship with self and source or field or consciousness or life, keep that practice up.Keep curating the quality of your mind. Keep curating the quality of your internal world and your relationship to the world.You know, the greater system that you're a part of, whatever that looks like for you, whatever morning ritual or practice you have, whether it's meditation, affirmation, exercise, healthy food, whatever work you do up it, you know, because the quality of your internal world and then your projection is the quality of what is going to come back to you. And we know this as coaches, we, this is part of what we coach. But you better be living it.And when you're interacting with AIs, the quality of your mind will only be reflected back to you with whatever AIs you're engaged with. So if you're engaging with AIs and you're coming from a poor quality of mind, you're going to get results that are reflective of that.So it's important for us to dedicate time. I believe daily, but whatever regularity for you, but I believe in daily practice because it's going to be even more and more important.And to Sally's point around faith, the stronger your faith in the unknown and your relationship to the unknown, the more fearless you are, the more conviction you have, the more effective you are not only in your own life, but in the lives of the people around you as well. So yeah, that's something that you can curate. You know, it doesn't come gift wrapped on the front door from FedEx.You know, this is something that you develop with practice.

You know, I read something once, it talked about faith as two things we all understand the principle of action, meaning without faith that something would do something like we didn't plant if we didn't expect the harvest. But it's also a principle of power.And part of actual creative power is that certainty or belief that the power of 5D, it actually is there and it is a creative power anyway. That's a Whole separate conversation. But Sally, if I'm asking you what. What would you tell me if I'm.If I'm yearning, if I'm open and I'm saying, okay, what do I need to do to stay relevant? Jim has given his description of it. What would, what would you tell me to start with or to do?

I've written a number of things down. Okay, number one, get into alignment. So identify which areas of your life you are not into alignment. And that's not doing your version of it.Because the more in alignment that you are, the more that you can tap into, the more that you can receive and the more of service you can be. I train people to be a 10 every day. 10 is, you know, zero is the worst. 10 is the best to get into the slipstream, to get into the vortex.Obviously, if you, if you generate and maintain being in a 10 state all the time, obviously what you attract. How many books do we need to read that say, be careful what you think. Your thoughts create reality. Well, they do.And language creates the reality of your world. So being cognizantly aware of what language you're using on a day to day basis to ensure that your resonance is tapping in at that highest level.And so when you're in the presence of somebody that you're serving, that you are operating in that pure state in the context of being the vessel, honoring the vessel, the God given vessel that you have been given. It's one thing to do fitness and food regime and all that sort of thing.But you know, when you are walking into a room full of people and you are in with your body, you know, I don't care what anybody says, you are 99.9% ahead of the game.So whatever regime that you have in place, you know, what would it be like if you were operating at that 10 status and honoring the vessel to also be in more in alignment? I call it ssd. Serious significance and drama. You know, we as human beings oscillate between two states.We're either in our power or in our default, our disempowered state. We oscillate between the two and the congruency of who you be like if your relationship is out, if you're estranged from your children.As a coach, you know, those are all the areas that you need to clean up to be able to ensure that you're in alignment.Gratitude also, I think gratitude is one of the biggest things for a human, let alone whether you're a coach or not, to be able to focus on what you're grateful for every day tomorrow is not guaranteed to everyone. And being able to operate from the essence of gratitude, I think is mission imperative. Meditation. Jim and I, decades worth of meditation.You know, there is power in the breath, being able to get out of the monkey mind. I believe any coach needs to learn the discipline and practice of meditation. That's just a non negotiable.And obviously the spiritual healing is wanting to get the healing on whatever is incomplete from the past. But there's also spiritual evolution.Being able to seek out those practitioners that can evolve your spiritual connection, spiritual connectivity, learning how to be a conduit, learning how to reach that stage of being unconsciously competent in your channeling ability, being able to focus on the cause versus the symptom. Because most egoic level 3D orientated coaches, they focus on coaching into symptoms versus coaching into the causal dynamic of what is occurring.And that's part of honing. I mean, I'm a dangerous woman to talk to because language is my vehicle. I don't coach at a symptomatic level. I coach at a causal level.I think that one of the other things would be, what do you tolerate? I often say to people, what would your life look like if you didn't tolerate anything that wasn't working?So people tolerate a lot and even coaches do.And nine times out of 10, if you're not getting results with the client that you're sitting in front of, nine times out of 10, there's one finger pointing out and three fingers pointing back, who are you being in front of that said client? Because nine times out of 10, when you do the work, it'll boss Moses, you know, shift who you're in front of.

You know, one of the things that daily preparation or regular preparation, and I agree, it's daily. I don't know why we were built to, you know, go to sleep or die every night and be born again every morning, but we were.And that like the Olympics are going on right now and you can't imagine any Olympic athlete warming up after the game or after the event, right? Like that would be insane. So why would we do any of our days half baked? Like each day is this precious opportunity that.And to prepare for that day, it has to. And it has to be in the morning period. And I make no bones about that.But here's something people tell me often, well, I have a morning ritual and I do this, that and the other. And my question is always really simple. Does it work? And, and they say, what do you mean and? The answer is simple.When you get done with doing whatever it is, I use the acronym spem, Spiritual, physical, emotional, Mental to design all that. I wrote a book about that too. So. But my question is, does it work when you get done? Does it leave you in that 10 state?Because if it doesn't, fix it, because it's not doing what it needs to do for you. So it's not about a set of things. It's about did it work? So anyway, that's the way I think about it. So let's just switch a little bit.Again, what else?In the context of coaching the elite, which is all that's going to be left, the true human connectors, the embodiment people that are what they talk about before a word is spoken. And that energetics that you talked about being in alignment. Precisely. What else didn't we talk about?What else is on your mind about this that ought to be part of this conversation?

I mean, look, I think, and we've, we've alluded to this and touched on it, but just to, you know, to make it explicit, if you're not leaning into the emerging intelligences and playing with them and exploring and finding out what's happening, if you're not listening and reading and researching and staying up with the game as much as possible as a coach, you better get on it, because you will also get left behind if you can't sit with your clients. And, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm guiding. A lot of my clients are so, quote, unquote, busy, you know, in that executive world, that's a whole other story.But they're so busy that they don't have time to stay abreast of the latest AI developments and what's coming out and what they can and can't do and how they could use it, et cetera. But I am for them. So when we sit down, part of the value add is that I'm like, hey, did you realize that you could use this to help you do that?And then another point that I've been laboring home with my clients is that when I show them how an AI can save them a whole bunch of time, and they say, wow, Jim, you've just given me four hours back in my day. And then I say to them right now, pause, stop. Don't go to the next thing on your to do list.No one outside your office knows that you've just got four hours up your sleeve that you didn't have, Right? Stop, pause. Think of a relationship that's really, really important to you.Go and find that person, take them for a walk, spend some time with them, ask them how their family is. Ask them what, which, what holiday they're looking for. Like, connect with this person and invest in that relationship.You've got some time you didn't have before. Go and invest it in relationships. Because the quality of our life is directly correlated to the quality of our relationships.And as a leader, the quality of your leadership is dependent on the quality of your relationships.So anyway, that's, that's just, I think that as coaches, you better be as, as, as on the front foot as you can be with AI because you know your clients are going to need you to know what you're talking about.

Sally, what else for you that is we didn't talk about yet?

Post Covid.The entire leadership landscape has changed and there are organizations on this planet right now that have not changed a thing and they've gone back to whatever their interpretation of normal is.And you know, we have expectations of leaders that they're supposed to have the answers and because we're navigating this terrain of uncertainty in a way that we never have. If you were to take that same conversation into the coaching industry, if you think that you could operate pre Covid. Post Covid.In the same way and still believe that you're going to be effective, you know, short to long term, I'd say think again. The entire landscape has changed. So you need to evolve as the world is evolving.And that's just not a. Oh, you know, over the next month I might know that is a day to day, ongoing investment into evolving. You know, everything else is evolving. So you need to be evolving with it, otherwise you're going to become redundant.

So I want to thank both of you. It's been a really fun conversation for me. Jim, thanks for sharing your heart, your wisdom and the energy and passion that you have.Thanks for being here today.

Oh, Kellen, it's always a joy to hang out with you, mate. So thanks for having me on your show.

You're welcome, Sally. It was delight to meet you. Thank you for sharing your passion and the things that you're focused on and your wisdom with us today.Thanks for being here and I really

salute you for who you're being in the world and for your contribution to the industry. It's. Everybody needs to read your books and get to know and listen to his podcast because it's so needed in the world.

All right, well, listeners, I want you to take this seriously.This, this episode has been one of the most on point and focused in terms of not just because it echoes stuff that I saw and thought and researched, but these two people are doing the thing, the walking, the talk. And if you want to stay in the game and you want to matter, stay in it. You're worth it. You matter, and what you have to offer is priceless.And if you do, that's how you can move forward and create your ultimate life. Right here, right now. Your opportunity for me, massive growth is right in front of you.Every episode gives you practical tips and practices that will change everything. If you want to know more, go to kellenfluermedia.com if you want more free tools, go here. Your ultimate life ca subscribe, Share

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