The Coaches Who Refuse to Bleed Will Be Replaced by Machines

Welcome to the show. Tired of the hype about living a dream? It's time for truth. This is the place for tools, power and real talk.So you can create the life you dream and deserve your ultimate life. Subscribe, share, create. You have infinite power.Hi there and welcome to to today's episode of youf Ultimate Life, the podcast I created to help people live their best life. To create purpose, prosperity and joy and do it by using their gifts or talents or life experience, the core of who they are.So I have a couple of beautiful guests here. Jonathan, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

Dan, welcome to the show.

Thank you very much. Good to be here.

Great. Now, I don't do introductions. When you talk, you can say whatever people need to know about that. And we'll just get started.This, this is one of the Thursday edition podcasts for my regular listeners that we started in September. It's about what is happening with the coaching world and what is going to happen over the next 12 months.And I picked that as an arbitrary time frame. But just to illustrate the rapid change that's coming and what we as coaches, you know, can do about it if we want to.But it's not going to be a trivial transition. This is a monstrosity of a transition. So got these guys here and we're just going to talk about this for a while.Jonathan, you happen to be on my left side and I read left to right, so I'm going to start with you. The first thing, a question I want to kick this off with is are you using AI? What are you doing with it?And tell me a little bit about your relationship with this, this fairly, not really new, but fairly newly minted beast.

Yeah, no, great question. And for your readers to our listeners to understand, I'm in the entertainment industry.I launch streaming media channels, so I have several channels on, you know, roku and vizio, etc. And I'm a commitment to making sure that positive content is out there. So AI is hugely affecting the entertainment industry.Nobody really knows what's going to happen, including AI in every conversation I have with ChatGPT, which is often. So to answer that question, I'm using it often from a research and planning perspective. Right, right.It's just, it's so much faster than, than having to do that by scratch. At the same time, you know, AI does lie and tends to be a little bit geared toward making me happy. So I'm, I take all that into consideration.But for the entertainment industry at large, you know, There will be a lot of content that's AI generated. There already is soma, et cetera. So. So I'm looking at that and looking at how we can differentiate non AI content from AI content.And I think, you know, it's really going to boil down to personal experience and characterizing that from a human perspective, from a heart perspective, versus just coming up with dramatic, lifelike entertainment quality that that AI will be coming out with.

What do you. What do you notice? You said that it is too, too nice. You know, it's just nice all the time. It tries to make you feel good and all that kind of stuff.And it does if you let it. My own interactions have instructed it to stop doing that. And then it started saying to me, okay, fine, straight, no fluff. Here's the answer.And then I said, oh, for crying out loud, would you stop doing any of that crap? I said, now you said it just like that. You just talk to me. I don't need any fluffy crap. I don't need any stage setting. Just talk to me.Let's work together. And it came back and said, understood. And that was it. And then it quit doing all of it.I said, if I want you to do something different, I'll tell you, but right now, this is what I need anyway. All right, well, Dan, what are you doing with this in the context of.I know you help people in a lot of different ways, so tell us what some of those ways are and what you're doing.

Well, I think that I've primarily used it in two ways consistently.Like a lot of entrepreneurs post Covid, I've kind of built up a group of people that I work with, you know, 10, 99 employees, volunteers that, you know, I have to interact with over zoom and over some sort of technology. And because I'm just a very natural doer, I've always had a very hard time being able to write operations manuals. I'm neurodiverse.So just kind of sitting down and doing those different things has always been very difficult for me.So I've used AI a lot to take a lot of the concepts and the things that I'm doing and build those out into manuals and operating procedures that I can hand off to someone else to kind of run for me, that has always been an Achilles heel for me for as many years as I've been working. And so it really helps me in that regard. The other thing that I use it for is to really help me work on the business.I always say that between our ears we have three things. We have our brain, we have our mind, and we have our spirit.And one of the major challenges for most entrepreneurs is the fact that we work in our business so much that whenever we read a great book that says, well, you have to work on your business, read the E Myth by Michael Gerber. And. And. But there's just limited brain capacity to be able to do that. And in doing that, you know, it saps your spirit.You know, we all know the, you know, you can pick whichever fact and figure you want. Like, you know, 78% of businesses fail within three, three years. Right.And so one of the things that I just have been doing is trying to find as many ways as possible for, for AI to just be my brain.Like, instead of just formulating something, I'll ask it a question, probably, much like Jonathan, I have enough content that's in there where it kind of knows me to some extent. And so by AI acting as my brain, it allows me to use my entire mind on whatever the output was.And I can say that sounds about right, that sounds like me, or that doesn't sound like me, that doesn't sound about right.I think a lot of people get into trouble, kind of to Jonathan's point, where, you know, they take whatever comes from the prompt as gospel just because they're not using their mind on it. So I've used AI Primarily as my brain most of the days, and then I'm able to work on whatever the output was, and that tends to save my spirit.And so I've found that I can work more effectively for longer periods of time because I'm just exerting less human electricity in lieu of having the AI use its own electricity to come up with some basic answers for me, for me to work from. Cool.

Well, I'm going to direct it. Specifically, I'm going to define for a minute. Not that you don't know, guys know this, of course you do.But coaching is the, you know, it's the, it's the chosen profession of, of guiding, supporting, lifting, encouraging, a little bit teaching, but mixed with teaching, but mostly helping people claim the right responsibility and ability to both develop and create and that sort of thing. So when you think about your own interactions with AI, including its mistakes and propensity, to what do you, you know, blow smoke if, if you will.And you have to, you have to look at it with your mind, like you pointed out, Dan, what, what. What do you see as the sort of the boundary?And this is to both of you, I don't care who answers first, but what do you see as the boundary where it becomes. Where it's still very useful as a creative partner and to do some of the things.I like the distinction you had about brain and crossing over the boundary into things that belong really in the realm of the spirit, which is where the essence of our, you know, our goals and real big desires and things live. Where do you think that boundary is, as you see it, working with this thing? And I don't care who goes first. Raise your. Don't even raise your hand.Just talk.

I'll go. I mean, I think. I think it comes down to personal awareness and responsibility.So even before AI, I would suggest that if someone is looking for advice, that they pursue it from a data collection and experience collection perspective. Hey, I noticed this, that, and the other thing.If you start looking for someone to govern your life for you, do this, do that, and rely solely on what an outside input is, then you're going to get into trouble. And I think AI makes that really easy to do because it is so smart. But smart isn't always the answer. Sometimes heart is the answer. Not smart.

Ooh, it rhymes. Way cool. Good for you.

I came up with that just now.And so I think that's the distinction is if for me, I need to be able to stay in my heart, even though I'm gathering information and gathering maybe minimizing the amount of time I need to spend doing a task. But why am I doing that task? The why has to still come from me.

Cool. Dan, what are you thinking about that?

I definitely agree with that. I mean, I think AI is intelligent. It's just not very smart. And so because there's so many extraneous variables that it can't do.So I definitely agree with that. I think that oftentimes we undervalue.

The.

Benefits that come from human to human interaction and being able to isolate and focus on those very, very small nuances of language, nuances of facial features, all those different things.So in many ways, there's one side of me that believes you, Kellen, that it's like, hey, a lot of these different coaching professional things will be eradicated.But then there's the other line of thought that, okay, now that everyone has all the answers, we got that answer from a super fast, super intelligent computer, and now we're trying to put it through our very prehistoric brains. And now that I know the answers, I'm still going to feel like, wow, why can't I make myself do this right?Like, all of us should Be, you know, running 5Ks and eating lettuce and never drinking whiskey. But a lot of us don't do that.And so I think that there are some people who believe this could be the lead to the eradication of the coaching profession. Some people believe it'll lead to the proliferation of the coaching professor.Because all these people will say, my God, I know what to do, I just can't do it. And I need that human to human interaction with our two prehistoric brains working with each other to get me to that goal.Now that I know what it is, now that I know what the answer is, right? That's always the thing. Like when someone is unable to get into shape, me included, it's like, oh well, someone tell me what to do.Like, what's the diet du jour? Is it Atkins? Is it calorie reduction? Is it eating meat all the time?Like there's all these are answers, but sometimes you just need to have a trainer who puts their arm around your shoulder and says, hey, do it this way. And if it doesn't work in two months, we'll try it this way.So I think that the limits of it are the fact that it's not human, which is a somewhat obvious thing to say. And we as human beings are hardwired to interact with each other, not hardwired to interact with something that's hardwired.So I think that the limits of it are that we don't truly understand the human brain and what actually leads to real change. We understand it conceptually, but many of us have been around a thousand attractive people, but we picked out our wife or our girlfriend.It's like, I don't know why it was you, but it was you. We don't understand why that is and AI can't explain why that is.So I think that depending on which side of the fence that you're on, AI might lead to more human interaction. I know when I use AI, I use AI to become more human, not more robotic. So I can truly focus in on those very small, non verbal, verbal cues of people.And I found that that's what made me more effective as a coach.

I love that. And thanks for saying that because here's when I say that 95%, it's, I will say it this way, 95% of what passes for coaching now.And what I mean by that is there are so many. I've been through lots of programs and I can't tell you how many thousands of coaches I've either worked with or have helped.I'VE helped do stuff and whatever. And most of my clients aren't coaches. But I still have done that over I guess 18 years now. And what passes for coaching isn't.It is the recitation of things that we know about and what's going to be left. That is that humanity is the things that we are, not the things that we talk about.And so that connection of two prehistoric brains is the actual connection of reality. And so many people who are coaching are really using the, using the opportunity to tell people information and talking about stuff.And that is what's going to be completely eviscerated because AI is faster, better writes it, you know, et cetera, et cetera, and doesn't ever get tired. And yes, there is a crying need for that intimacy of human connection. That's absolutely true. And if you.One of the things I did for research is I, you know, got a coaching income distribution of as of five months ago when I started and then 17 months later, which is now next Christmas, given, you know, as an AI analysis and generation. And I also did an analysis of 11 different coaching models that exist today. And I ask that two questions.One is how effective is each model at creating the outcome promised just from available data?And number two, how vulnerable is that method to what you either can do or will be able to do as you look track the arc of development for the short term, 12 months. And it was surprising. The picture wasn't good. Unless. And this is the unless. That's why I only say 95%.The the truth of what will be left is those who are the embodiment of what they teach, not the purveyor of information, in other words, that have the ability and the willingness to have that vulnerable connection which isn't most of what passes for coaching today. That's been my experience. So I said that. And I get one of you guys to have a chance to react, you can either vomit on it or whatever you want.

When I think about it, I think about modalities that AI likely will never have, like net neuro emotional technique which relies on intuition but also is diving into the emotional body of somebody. Intellectually you can do that, but you can't touch emotionally or somatic exercises, that sort of thing.Those, those modalities and, and modalities like them to me have always been much more about what it feels like to be human and what it means to be committed from a human to human perspective. AI has given me a lot of coaching, but I'm not committed to AI as much as I am to a human being, to you, Kellen.If I commit to something and I think that that level of human to human touch and somatic and you know, emotional work is something that if coaching goes in that direction, then that's what. Not only will that be available and not available with AI, but to Dan's point, and I really, I love the point you made.It might even be more needed and more prevalent because I will take care of all the rest and we'll be starved for that.

Yeah, it's interesting. I. This past April I was at the, the TED conference in Vancouver and Sam Altman from OpenAI was one of the speakers there and he was very.Well, first of all, the guy from TED kind of roasted him a little, but which was always very funny.But he was also very clear about like what AI is supposed to do when AI is not supposed to do and, and how they go lengths to ensure that even though it seems as though there's consciousness, that there will never be consciousness. Now there could always be, you know, with every hacker in the world, there can always be a rogue faction that tries to create this consciousness.And then we have Terminator 2 and all the fun stuff that's going to happen there. But I think that, you know, I think Jonathan made very good points there.I think one of the things that we always worry about, and I'll reiterate this from what I said before with the human brain, is we don't know what we don't know and we don't know the impact of not having to go through a true search process in order to get information.You know, if you see like a fun movie like you know, like Luke Wilson's like Idiocracy, you know, you worry about our brains not going through a step by step process for problem solving and, and just having the problem solve what that's going to look like in multiple years. So I think that over time as we start to see some of the byproducts once again, we don't know. We don't know.We see the byproducts of not going through the natural brain function of search and rescue or search and create information, it will have an impact on our brains.We just don't know what it's going to be because we've grown up in a society now, the last 50 years where it's teached towards the test, get it done as quickly as possible. There's only supposed to be one answer and we as a civilization will pay a price for that. Even though we don't know what it's going to be.So I think because of those things, our brains will have a natural need to search out other human brains.Yes, AI will give us a very quick microwavable answer to different things, but it will not reprogram a million dollars worth of coding in the human brain to need the connection. And so I think that's what I feel good about, is the fact that we're using all these great tools.But ultimately our brains are hardwired to need other people and need that type of interaction. And to Kellen's point, what passes for coaching will be the same.But that gives people like myself and Jonathan and Kellen obviously a leg up because we always, as Kellen mentioned, embody what we do. So the cream will rise to the top, everyone else will drop.And hopefully that dynamic will force coaches to step their game up, because that's what will happen.

There's three things that came to mind as you said that. One is, I don't know if you guys. A couple of months ago saw the new contract between Microsoft and OpenAI.It was renegotiated a couple of months ago, came out and I read through it quickly and two things stuck out. One is there's a whole boatload more money that's now going to be available for development, some 20 billion extra dollars or something.And the other thing that freaked me out was they now have targets in that agreement for the development of AGI dates, which is like, okay. And so him standing up and promising it won't be this, that and the other I take with 12 grains of salt.But anyway, the fact that they have dates before 20, 30 of reaching AGI artificial general intelligence, which is the next scary step just made, it was interesting. Has nothing to do with coaching right now.But the thing, the thing that did is as I did all this research And I put 11 models, you know, how good are they? How vulnerable are they to AI, Low, medium and high? I just ask them to rate it. Like that got worse and worse.As I looked at that, I'm thinking, okay, and I know about the human thing, and I'm right with both of you on that. So finally it got. I got frustrated. Not frustrated, but like, okay, okay, enough. That I said, look, man, I get it.You can do this, you can do this, you can do this. Fine. What do you suck at? You know? And I asked, what do you suck at? What are you not going to be able to do?What are you going to completely face plant on? And you know, I. It was a Longer description than that. Every way I could say that. And it gave a good answer. And, and you can imagine what it all was.And you've said some of it. But it gave me one line at the end after all this crap, one line, and this one is the essence of it. And it said, I can't bleed, okay?And to me that was like, you know, that's the whole thing. That's it. That's all of it. I can't believe.And that, you know, for me, not necessarily for anybody else, but for me, that represents the essence of that, of the truth of connection. Not that connection has to be blood based, but that's, that is, that is the thing. And so there is a, there is a huge opportunity.And I say that on purpose because I don't.People that I, many, most even coaches that are pretty good still have this reservoir of fear around vulnerability around the stuff that makes for real deep connection. So I wonder, what do you guys think about the willingness of people to go to coaches?Not people, but people who have decided they want to coach to go to the kind of depth of connection that represents that essence so that people that want to be with them will actually pay them well enough, you know, pay them well because cream rise to the top, that means they're going to be really valuable.But I'm wondering, what do you think about people's willingness to do essentially what they haven't been, most of them haven't been really doing in terms of that vulnerability and real connection? Are they going to be willing.

You know, Go ahead, Dan.

Yeah, no, I was, I mean, that's, you know, I'm going to answer this like a marketing professor. Okay, Some, some, some, some people as, as a retired marketing professor, some people will, some people won't. Right.So, so coaches have to be very smart about how they market to, to a target market. Because, for example, as a, you know, you can buy, you know, Honda Civic, you could buy a Lamborghini. There's a market for both.With the Lamborghini you're going to sell a ton less, but you might make more money. And so there are going to be, you know, no, no shade to anyone who has a Honda Civic, by the way.So there's going to be plenty of Honda Civic coaches who will basically say, hey, listen, I'm, I'm doing all this research on AI, but then you and I are having a conversation almost like I'm a therapist and I'll be someone to talk to. And there will be those who basically say to get to A higher level of understanding.It takes, once again takes the vulnerability, it takes the proaction, it takes all these different things and that's why you're going to, you know, pay me $10,000 a month to do so.So I think coaches just need to figure out who their target market is, understanding that, you know, many more of the people in the world are going to go to the Honda Civic coach, but if you get 10 clients who are, look who want the Lamborghini coach, it's going to take way more patience, it's going to take way more marketing. But there is the market for that out there. So I think there's a market for everything.There's a market for people, for, you know, Eskimos who buy snow cones. Right. Even though it's very counterintuitive.So I think coaches, this is where they're worrying less about the AI side of it and much more about the marketing side of it. If they desire to be that type of coach that does that.

Cool. Jonathan, what were you going to say?

Well, I just, I think that, that I agree with Dan actually. It's, I think the vulnerability that it takes to, you know, to bleed in front of a client is something that is earned the hard way.And not everybody, coach or otherwise, is going to be willing to, to do that or even if they are willing, able. So I like the Lamborghini and Honda Civic approach because, or analogy because I think that that says it.You know, if, if I want to really know how to get the most out of life by bleeding, I'm going to go to a bleeding coach.I'm not going to go to, I'll go to the Lamborghini coach and, and not everybody will but you know, I can't speak for the world's experience, but from my experience, doom scrolling and that sort of dopamine hit is not fulfilling when compared to true, true love and emotion and connection. And I think AI and the proliferation of technology only makes that reality more and more and more obvious.So, so it opens the door for more people to want to bleed rather than just exist. And as more people want to bleed, more people will bleed and they'll be able to coach that way. So it may be the dawn of a more connected human race.You know, I, I get scared by the other realities.What, what worries me the most is I know that I will approach AI from the perspective of knowing no AI and I will always have the understanding that there's knowledge beyond the knowledge I'm being fed and that I'm Being fed it by somebody. But will my children and will their children know that? You know, we don't know what we don't know. Right, Dan?So, yeah, I, I think I answered the question.

You did perfect. Well, everything's perfect. We're just talking. There are three things that I think about when I think about the barriers.And I love the idea that we're opening a more connected world because there's no question there is a spiritual revolution going on. There are people craving connection. There's a movement. I see it all the time. I talk to people that talk about this energy.And if you talk to, you know, woo woo weirdos and I, I belong. So if you talk, you can feel it. You know, there's something going on. And.Okay, but I also think we've trained ourselves to be in this download and double click world where everything needs to be solvable in the length of a TV sitcom and that's not reality. And so when you think about coaches making a decision to step up, I'm not convinced yet. And maybe you can convince me, Dan.There's going to be a boatload of work for civic coaches. I think AI is going to wipe most of that out. But I could be wrong. The three things that I think get in the way of that is one.Number one is what I call the head in the sand problem. And I've talked to people that say, oh, you know, we all need human touch. I'm fine. And I'm like, you're dead. That's what you are. You're history.You're going to be, you know, finding another job because you're not paying attention. So there's that people that are pretending it's not a problem, they're going to drown in the tsunami. Number two is what I call the anti problem.And that is a picture casino, right? And you go in there in these blackjack tables all over the place. And all the tables, all the $10 tables are all full, but they're full of robots.And if you or I want to go sit down and play, the only place there's a chair left is in the high roller room. And the ante, there's 10,000 bucks. And so what feels like to me is the ante to get in this game.And again, I'm talking about making a living, which I arbitrarily defined as 100K.You know, you can define whatever, but if you make much less than that, you either have to have another gig or a partner and have two incomes or whatever. The ante has Gone way up to get in this game, in my opinion.And the third thing that's going to keep him is if you're going to be a coach that does this ability to connect and you are the embodiment, Dan, as you said, and I agree with you, there's work involved. Like we all know, development's a mountain without a top.Well, you got to be on the mountain and developing or you're going to plateau and stagnate and that's the end of it.And so between head in the sand, the ante going way up, and the rigor, as it were, of being willing to be the embodiment of what you teach and coach, which is only can be from your loved experience, because everything lived experience because everything else is, you know, that thing over there that we're talking about, I. The jury's out. But I'm wondering about like, who's going to be willing to pay that price.

I mean, I think, you know, one of the things that we always used to tell college students, at least when I, after I, when I was retiring, was that, you know, the beauty and the curse of a freshman coming to college is that, you know, there's a 75% chance that whatever job they get at graduation doesn't exist yet.And so as we're having the discussion, we're having discussion about coaching and we are thinking about semi myopically, with the exception of the Honda Civic and the Lamborghini piece.But I think for the all those people who are, who are at the table with the machines playing blackjack, you either have to go to the high roller room and have the education, the experience, the leverage, the influence to do that, or you gotta go to a different casino or you gotta build your own casino. So perhaps as soon as some of these things like coaching perhaps become commoditized, whole new industries come from that.This is also hardwired into the human experience and the human brain that we are unbelievably adaptable to different things.And so while homelessness could go up, while bankruptcies can go up, and all these different things can happen, technically there's going to be some sort of a stopgap against those things happening. So, you know, this might be somewhat, you know, high in the sky, rainbows and bubble gum, but.But I think that the adaptability and the human spirit will find new ways and find new professions for everyone.Who was a coach before, right, when all of us were probably growing up, when you said coach, you thought Vince Lombardi or something, or Billy Martin, right? And so, and so this is a, it's a relatively new phenomenon. And in 20 years there'll be another phenomenon. And people say, remember what a coach was?Yeah, I had like a life coach and a energy coach and a business coach and a coaching coach and a yoga coach and like all these different things. So I think that as AI will, will start to narrow certain fields and coaching could do that.But also this access to additional information and smart people like, you know, Kellen going online and saying, we'll just ask it this, eventually it will create new opportunities that aren't. We don't even know yet. So that's, that is the hope.

I love that. And I appreciate, really appreciate you saying that because it's true. Growing up, the only coaches were, you know, football coaches or whatever.And the idea of, you know, coaching as a profession has come from two things. One, we invented it. And two, the level of separation and disconnect is going up.You know, disconnect families and moving apart and not, you know, no proximity. The kind of natural structures that filled those functions before have been, you know, moved, gone, done. And so that's sort of what invented it.And other things could be invented that we don't know yet. I love you for pointing that out.

Well, I also think that the coaching arena has gone awry already because there's 22 year old coaches coaching using the techniques that AI will replace. And it's nothing against 22 year old people. I was one, really.But experience and the sense of an elder is what AI won't be able to do as well as a human. And that's where I think, yeah, we could maybe level set back to the idea that not everybody knows everything.

I love that and thank you because yesterday or two days ago I saw an ad on Facebook, someone sitting in a, in a beach chair. And the ad underneath said, train to be a life coach, work from anywhere, help people and make a good income.And I'm still seeing those ads today and I'm thinking, can I, I don't need to vomit here because I'll mess up my computer keyboard or my phone. But you know, I mean, really, they're selling that nonsense. And I call it flat out nonsense.Because the only thing that truly matters is Dan, what you've been talking about, the truth of human connection. Everything else is the communication of information.Something we learned about, not the true emotional, spiritual assistance and support that is the function of coaching. I mean, if you even think about sports coaches, you know, the ones that are legendary aren't legendary. For their technical skills.They're legendary for their somehow ability to do stuff in people's hearts and heads to get them to do incredible things. Yeah, that, that's what AI can do. And, but that has, is what has been, where you say gone awry. That's it.And what's going to be left is that stuff and the rest of it will be, I think, replaced. I don't know, maybe there'll be some broken down Honda Civics running around, but whatever. So another last. I don't know last.But what are the dangers or worries or worry points or concerns or, you know, whatever word strikes you in this context?

What I'm afraid of or what I think a danger is, is that, I mean, as human beings there's a gene that inspires laziness, you know, and, and in today's culture, we mix relaxation with laziness. And I think there's this gray area of what's in between. And I think what that means is we rely.We rely on the machine or we rely on things being easier. And I think there's this false concept in culture today that life's supposed to be easier. Let's make life easier. AI will make life easier.Everything in technology makes it easy. Wait a minute. We grow by being pushed up against our barriers to growth. That's not easy. That's not supposed to be easy.Life isn't supposed to be easy. So I think the danger is, you know, thinking that easy is better. I mean, look at. Even in my lifetime, technology has changed so much.But do I have more time in my day because of it? No, because now I'm doing other things. Right, Because. Because that's easier. I don't think easy is the answer.And I think that the more we dive into this and, and stop thinking for ourselves, the more dangerous it becomes that we don't. We lose that idea, we lose that fact. We lose the will to not be easy.

Dan, what are you worried about?

Yeah, I mean, I think, I think Jonathan kind of hit it right.And this has been the ongoing thread of kind of everything I've said, the things I like about AI I try to make it allow me to be more human, to use more trial and error, to do more AB testing. But I know most people don't use it that way.And there's certainly going to be an inflection point where, you know, it kind of you, you, you mentioned it in a sense that those great football coaches at the very beginning of the NFL, the Vince Lombardi's of the world they were technicians, but they're technicians because they showed a way of doing, like, sweeps and things like that that no one else had ever seen before.And then the ones who are like the, you know, maybe Bill Belichicks who say the right thing to the right person, treats everyone differently, like, has copious notes and all those other things. That's what also makes you successful. Well, the problem with AI is it can't do either of those. It can't relate to you, really.And in most cases, it can't really come up with something new because large language models are. They don't have a crystal ball with the right answer. They just make a prediction based on information.So the belief that you're going to create something completely new, I mean, for God's sake, they've had AI on, on gene editing since the very beginning. And we still don't have a cure for cancer yet. These things are working on it 24 hours a day, seven days a week for multiple years.So if we have to understand, the major concern here is that these are correct answers. And all human civilization is based on trial and error.And once again, we don't know what a civilization that's not based on trial and error looks like. And to Jonathan's point about the laziness, Gene. Right.I worry about my, you know, I worry about my own kids, like young, you know, black and brown kids growing up. I always tell them it's like, listen, man, like, you guys are living your best life.You can have whatever haircut you want, you can like girls, think you're cute, everyone's dating you. Like, that's not what life was like in the 90s, certainly not what your grandfather's life was like in the 60s.And I'm worried about you having zero grit and resilience because you never have to go through trial and error.And so we just don't know what that world's going to look like for our kids or our grandkids of having a whole generation that really grit and resilience is optional. And that's what scares me about what that's going to look like for them.

This beautiful. We about exhausted our time. So, Jonathan, if you have a closing comment, I want it.Otherwise, I just want to thank you for your heart and being here today. Do you have a thing that you need to say that we didn't talk about yet?

I don't. I haven't thought of one.But I do think that the, the upswing, this resurgence of spiritual interest that you talked about earlier and pairing that with sort of going back to nature. Just. I'll leave you with this. A question I often ask myself is why are we inventing technology?That nature already solved that problem and we were trying to better nature, but nature takes everything into consideration, whereas technological solutions solve one problem and then typically do not sync up with all of the other things and created greater difficulty. So for me, it's always about I'm just going to go back to nature.I'm just going to go back to the, the, the flesh and blood of what it's like to be a human and then put everything in that perspective.

Dan, final comments.

Well, my final comment is I love Jonathan's comment.

Right.

You know, the, the ba. You know, basically what he's talking about, if you summarize that to a nice marketing term, is basically like the butterfly effect. Like, like every.Everything is taken into account. Everything is part of the same ecosystem. One thing affects another thing in ways that we won't know, maybe for a long period of time.And so I think that at the end of the day, kind of like the last thing I will say is understand that this is a tool, not the whole toolkit, and understand whoever is the most human will end up winning regardless of what happens here. And to everyone's point, please avoid 22 year old life coaches because they actually haven't lived yet. So that's that one.

I love both of you. Jonathan, thank you for sharing your heart, your wisdom and your beautiful smile with us today. Thank you.

Yeah, you're so welcome.

Dan, thank you for your heart and your wisdom and the perspective. I love the butterfly effect, you know, the flap the wings in Beijing and a hurricane Kansas kind of story. Complex system analysis, everything.But anyway, thank you, Dan, for being here today.

Absolutely. It's my pleasure. It's my pleasure to serve on this panel.Jonathan, it's a pleasure meeting you and you know, looking, looking forward to more interactions.

You too, Dan. I, I enjoy your smile. And Kellen, just, just keep doing what you're doing. It's amazing to have you in our world and I appreciate you.

Thank you. I appreciate that. So listeners, I want you to hear this, go back and listen again.There's a lot of good nuggets and I say that in every show and I don't say that to make the guests feel good. I say that because that's my experience of having been here in this conversation. And consider carefully how you're using this tool. It's amazing.It can do a lot for you and it can also cripple you and break your legs and, you know, conceptually to hobble you. Because as Jonathan said, life should be hard.And if you're willing to embrace the process and develop some grit like Dan was talking about, you will be able to move forward to create your ultimate life. Never hold back and you'll never. That's quiet.

Open your heart.

In this time around, right here, right.

Now, your opportunity for massive growth is right in front of you. Every episode gives you practical tips and practices that will change everything.If you want to know more, go to kellenfluekermedia.com if you want more free tools, go here. Here. Your ultimate life Ca Subscribe Share.