Doctor Reveals 90% of Your Thoughts Are Destroying Your Life

At which point I looked at the sky and said, you have got to be kidding me, because I was a poet.

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Hello, welcome to this episode of your ultimate life, the podcast that we created to help you get excited, live your life, be fun, have fun, do good stuff, and live a life of purpose, prosperity and joy.

I'm blessed again to have a guest I've had before, but love her every time she comes.

Dr. Carla Rodering.

Carla, welcome to the show.

Thank you, Kellen.

I'm glad to be here.

You know, we were talking just before we started about you or today was a day you're seeing patients and you've been in medicine for 40 plus years.

And you are certainly a grand dom of, you know, pulmonology and the work that you do in helping people's bodies recover.

But, you know, what impresses me more than that about you is your ability to bring love and kindness and empathy and humanity and, you know, a bunch of other words that we could say into this practice.

How come that's important to you?

Ah, well, you know, retrospectively, Kellen, that's what called me to medicine in the first place.

I wasn't a science girl.

I wasn't declaring myself at the age of five.

I had sort of an epiphany when I was in my 20s.

I sort of a download invitation, at which point I looked at the sky and said, you have got to be kidding me.

Because I was a poet and a musician and a mother, and I had no inkling inside of me that I would ever even turn towards medicine.

So I got called by heart and soul into the science and the art of medicine.

And I knew that I was going to have to learn some science and I was going to have to knuckle down and get it done.

I was not going to be able to love people well or more well than they were.

And as I got into that process, what I sometimes these days call the machinery of medicine, medicine, I really did lose sight of the calling for a while and then had an event that sort of woke me up and led me back home.

But what I know after really 40 some years in medicine is that if I bring my attention to your body, I'm only showing up as a partial healer.

That there is an entity known as Kellen that encompasses more than meets my eye or my ear and actually extends beyond my understanding.

And so my job as a physician is to walk in these steps of the original physician, which is some form of spirit from my understanding and to offer everything that I have, my heart, my spirit, my intellect, my caring, even into the spaces that I don't yet understand.

Well, just knowing that I can trust that if I place everything that I am on behalf of your well being, that it will land where it's meant to land.

You know, when you say all that, it makes me want to ask the question.

I mean, in the last, I don't know, a couple years, I've had different medical things.

And so I've been in and out of doctors and hospitals and things.

I wonder how many doctors, healthcare providers, but doctors specifically would hear you say all that, place all this, including this, this, this and the other and a bunch of soft, soft words, you know, forward in behalf of this entity.

How many people talk like that or even think like that and don't say it?

Yeah, so not a lot of people talk like that, but I will say, and I, and this is actually important for me to sort of bring forward more and more all the time, right?

More and more, all the time.

More and more people who are finding themselves standing in the middle of a hallway in some hospital or clinic somewhere saying, wait, what am I, what am I doing?

This doesn't look or feel like I thought it was going to look or feel.

What am I missing?

And then begin to kind of search for more meaning, more purpose.

So the conversations are bubbling up in unexpected places.

Doctors, dining rooms, online boards, conversations for physicians where there's a little more safety than the grocery store.

Right, right, right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, but the other thing that's happening, I think is that patients are coming to us with a different kind of expectation.

Right.

A different kind of yearning or something more than tablets and tests and 15 minute conversations that doesn't touch what's really hurting inside of them.

So I would suggest this conversations are rarest hen, Steve, and I've heard hens are growing more teeth.

But secondly, that there are more than you know and you know, you can't escape the presence of miracles, the presence of inexplicable outcomes, people getting better when they have no business getting better.

People, people who simply slip away for no good reason and recognize that there's something larger at play than my singular contribution to your well being.

That's fabulous and thanks for sharing that.

I'm glad to hear you say that there's.

There's a little more of that and people are feeling it and bringing it to that and then not only feeling it, but giving voice, saying yes to the nudge, you know, to say, to speak, to ask.

So tell me what happened to the poet and the musician after the calling.

Tell me.

Tell me a little bit about that and what you're doing.

And is there any way to.

No, I won't say is there any.

Of course, there always is.

What are the ways that you have brought that artistic, poetic, musical stuff into your life, if not directly into your medicine over these 40 years?

Yeah, yeah.

So, well, the poetry never left.

And I, you know, I'm a word junkie.

I am half Irish, so I claim to come by it legitimately from a long line of storytellers and musicians.

So I've always spoken a little bit poetically and have always been a little bit of a storyteller.

And here I would really point to this.

When you're in any kind of interface with another human being, especially a human being who has come to my doorstep, laying their life in front of me and saying, help me.

One of the ways to really relate to someone that is more impactful than describing the natural course of the illness is through story.

Creating a story that that patient can relate to and lean into and understand and carry home with them and say, this is what I know now today in a way that's understandable for me.

I also use.

I tell people to listen to music, right.

I have a little oat armamentarium of songs and stuff.

I still play music every single day on something that I can get my hands on.

But listen to music, dance when they're washing dishes to their favorite music, read little quips.

I have a little list of YouTube videos that are humorous or sobering or uplifting or bring awareness.

And so I give lists of that kind of material to patients to help them beyond physical therapy and their inhalers.

You know, I've never had that.

I've never been in a.

In a place where the only.

Only the thing one doctor told me is he gave me some medicine.

This is back 12 years ago when I was in the hospital for a week with afib and they couldn't get it to stop.

And they put me on amiodarone.

And he told me not to Google it.

He said, don't look that up.

You know, well advised.

Yeah.

Knowing that I would anyway.

But it's like, you know, scares the crap out of you because it does.

This is this, you know, all this stuff.

So that's the Only time anything.

I've never been given any of that other stuff.

So I believe you that the conversations are happening more.

Except for the last couple of years, I wouldn't have considered in my life me to be a frequent visitor to health stuff in terms a lot of it.

But I certainly haven't experienced that.

And that to me just gives an underscore to how rare of a gift and talent you are and the spirits you bring to this.

And I just want to call that out because I know you're a wordsmith, I've read some of your works and your writings and you know, we've shared the opportunity to do that.

And so I know that about you, but I haven't experienced that in my entire medical journey.

And so that's a beautiful and a rare thing.

I just wanted to say that.

Well, first of all, thank you so much for just acknowledging that I don't think that it's common.

I will also tell you that I, as a rare consumer of healthcare services, have also never experienced.

Experienced that.

And I.

It's my ardent hope that as medicine begins to change that there'll be a tipping point in which we under come to understand that time and a different kind of attention is part of what we're meant to do.

So, so thanks.

And it helps me.

And I've been doing this a long, long time and I'm really frustrated by the process, the machinery that I referred to of medicine these days.

It looks different than when I started.

I sometimes grumble, this isn't what I signed up for.

But I will tell you that it is those kinds of choices that I've made.

And I certainly surrender income and there's a certain set of advantages over here that I have surrendered.

But boy, I'll tell you, at the end of the day, I'm grateful that I get to still interface with people in their vulnerable moments from my authentic place.

Just so grateful.

What do you think is driving change?

Like you said, not what I signed up for.

And it's different now than it was when you started 40 years ago.

And I, I suspect that the last, I don't know, five, three, one year even, has seen an even greater acceleration of changes of different kinds, whether it's the machinery or the content or whatever.

Yeah, what are some of the things driving that change, both humanistic and scientific?

Well, so.

So let's start with the science, right?

Because the science is reinvented so swiftly, if you aren't a specialist, and sometimes even a specialist inside a specialty, it is overwhelming to attempt to even keep up with scientific leaps and bounds that are at the threshold of every single day.

Every single day.

Wow.

So.

And it's not, it's, you know, we used to think of that just in terms of medications.

Medications would change so swiftly that.

But you'd written three prescriptions and then it was gone and there was a new medication now you had to learn about.

But these days it's beyond that.

It's, you know, robotic surgeries and devices that are, that are really stepping up to do things that human beings used to do in a very competent way.

Things like AI, where we know that humans, but in combination with AI, do a way better job of reading X rays, for instance, than humans alone.

There's evidence that if patients contact their provider, if you will, through a portal, that AI can actually respond not only more rapidly, but with more empathy.

Because we don't have time.

We are now caught in.

And that's just some of it.

Some of it is generational.

You know, all this stuff about how different generations really what, what their operating system is, well, that's not just confined to whatever work they do in the world.

It is also deposited inside medicine.

So there's a different set of values, a different work ethic, a different set of boundaries that we didn't have at all.

So a different way of being inside a profession of service.

So there's all of that and then there's the whole regulatory out of control costs silos where this, this agency is making a decision that impacts this agency, but they never have a conversation and, and they're, and all of that gets imposed on clinics and doctors and hospitals and it's just a mishmash of regulation that consistently makes every successive day harder.

So I'm going to take that thought and take it out of medicine.

Yes.

Do you think this, this siloization, I don't think that's a word, but whatever.

Or this lack of communication in life is making life our experience of wandering through.

Is it having the same impact where this affects this?

And there's no communication like as you describe that with respect to the context of patient care.

What occurred to me was what said in my head was, well, that's the same thing that's happening in, in life too.

Things are disconnected and siloed and like one, I know what else you do is you help people in a, with your caring and compassion.

That has nothing to do with medicine about getting rid of, although you can make an analog.

The diseases, the barriers, the stories, the negativity that they carry spiritually instead of just in the body.

And you work as a guide or coach in that way, too, from your place of empathy.

So marry those two ideas and talk about it a little bit.

This siloization, the impact that that has on the conduct and flow of our lives and the work that you feel called to do to help people get rid of diseases, as it were, but not body diseases.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I do.

I do do work as a coach and as a.

As a mentor and guide and companion along the way of progressive awareness and lifting and learning and liberating ourselves from, you know, stale old beliefs that have set their limits upon our lives.

And one of the things that I noticed, both and I.

And by the way, Kellen, I don't think that there's anything remarkably unique about medicine.

It is just the place that I have known for such a long time.

And so I speak from that place.

But I think it's just a reflection of what's going on, not just in our country, but around the globe in terms of being separated, so separated from each other, compartmentalized this loss of tribe, if you will.

The loss of a sense of having a place to call home, a sense of belonging.

Many of us just don't know, don't have a sense that we belong quite anywhere.

I mean, I'd say 40% of the people I know work from home.

Connections are virtual, sometimes very limited in time and brief, sometimes sustained over time.

I have a great friendship with someone I've never met in person.

Right.

I had conversations with you for a long time before I ever met you in person.

Well, maybe that's not true.

It's not true.

We met it.

No, that's not true.

I remember when we met because I sat down beside you and said, I don't know why I need to sit by you, but I need to.

To sit by you.

Do you remember that?

I do remember that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But here's the thing.

Those are kind of bold behaviors that we don't see a lot of.

And we happen to be in a group that was what was really aligned with.

With who we in the spaces that we operate and would not judge that.

Right.

But for the most part, we are busy keeping our hearts safe, being concerned that we're going to have our heart broken somehow, and then that will be the end of it.

Protecting ourselves from energetically investing in relationships, in anything called the greater good, but really sort of moderating what we allow people to know about us in case we'll be judged, in case someone confronts us, has different points of view.

And I, you know, you know that my, I have a belief system that, that this whole human experience is of a spiritual nature and that we are all here in our own unique and divine way for a soulful purpose.

I don't hear that kind of conversation very often anywhere and without a sense that there's meaning to our lives.

And spiritual can be, you know, for me, it is like I am part of nature, that's part of my spirituality and stand in nature and know that I am connected to all of that.

But for the most part, we're not connected.

We're in competition.

We're protecting ourselves from each other or keeping safe, and we're not willing to, to put our hearts at risk for something deeper and more meaningful.

And so we end up with a superficial and wondering why life feels the way it does.

As you were saying that, Carla, I felt called to ask you a really weird, I don't know, weird, ill defined question, and that is this.

As you think about when you look at patients and you come into them and you, you know, you want to help them and you lay all that stuff you said on the line and so beautifully a few minutes ago, if you're thinking about the audience here, who, who wants to create a life of purpose, prosperity and joy, or whatever words they use, and in an un.

Reserved way, an unconstrained way, a way that lets you, or calls you to put your heart perhaps at risk, but on the line to express what you want, what you have, what you wish to give or teach.

What would that be?

So, you know, a little of my story, Kelan.

And so you know, that I had to sort of an existential free fall when I really came face to face with how far I had wandered, how much I had lost my way, and landed in a space of utter unknowing.

I had no idea how to find my way back.

But I was devoted to transforming my life.

And so I began that process and over the course, I'd say of about a decade, really developed, really grew, really learned, really was willing to see without judging myself, how I was showing up in the world, the kind of presencing that I had brought forward in my work and began the work of my own personal transformation.

Not for the week of Heart, or perhaps it is, perhaps that's exactly who it's for.

And then I have been on, and it's a never ending process, by the way.

I continue to be devoted to expanding my understanding, expanding in consciousness, expanding my loving every single day.

And so part of what I'm doing right now, if I can bring this forward is you know that I'm writing a book.

I do.

And the name of that book is called Bartering for Belonging.

Because one of the ways that I entered into medical school, well cultivated prior to my entry into medical school, but certainly honed these skills there.

It was the perfect, perfect place to hone these skills was that I had to barter.

I had to use commodities beyond what anyone else really had to employ to earn my place on the planet, my right to take breath.

And then of course, I compounded that by entering a profession that wasn't exactly welcoming to women into an area of expertise that certainly wasn't welcoming to women.

So I really learned how to be crafty in plying my way into the places that I wanted to be, thinking that was the path, innocently believing what I had come to believe over time when I had that awareness that I had sort of lost my way is what I call it.

But you can call it whatever you want whenever you have that awareness, whether sudden or slowly over time that, you know, I use.

I knew a guy once who said, listen, if you're trying to get to New York and you realize that you're, that you're headed towards Mexico, slowing down is just going to take you longer to get to Mexico.

You are not going to get to New York.

Right?

So at first I slowed down and then realized that I needed to turn.

So part of what I do in this book is sort of outline a framework that, that I employed along with lots of guidance and mentors.

I got a master's degree in spiritual psychology.

I did work in consciousness and, and healing.

I did coaching certifications.

I've done lots and lots and lots and lots of trainings because I was starving hungry for this maturity.

But when I really sat back and looked at here, here is how I moved from this space to the space in which that I now occupy, that feels liberated and continues to expand.

And I am the product of that process.

And, and if I could navigate from this suffering space over here, this hidden, bartering, pain filled, fear based suffering space into a place where I pretty much am happy, joyful, expansive, creative, curious, and get angry at my dog sometimes.

I told you before, I threatened God with a lawsuit a couple of years ago.

Right?

But if I could do that, given where I know I want, then I know that this process will just help people.

Just help people be happier, will just help people be more insightful, will just help people live in a more kind relationship with self, a more Kind relationship with others.

And when we operate from kindness and what I call living love, a little thing on my desk that says I am living love.

When we operate from that space and we place goodness into the universe, unconditional, without expectation, because we are free to do that, because we're filled now from the inside out.

When we do that, who knows what kind of wonders are at hand, what kind of difference we can make, what kind of tiny difference or monumental difference we might make one day, whether we know it or not.

You know, there's a couple of ways that that occurs to me.

One is there is the unknown.

What difference will it make to somebody we place, Excuse me, I use the phrase add good to the world all the time and you place kindness in the universe and be living love.

And we don't know, like you said, if it'll make a little difference or big difference somewhere out there.

But what we all know, absolutely every time for sure, without bail, is that by doing that each time we do it, it changes who we are.

Yes.

And that difference is the only one that we get to keep.

I mean, we came into the world with nothing, right?

And we're going to go out of the world with nothing.

And the only thing we're going to take with us is what we've made out of ourselves.

And each conscious choice to add good to the world, place love in the universe to be living love adds substance to our being.

It's not just a thing we did.

There is so much more of us, not in an aggrandizing way, but that empathy, that love, that choice to be kindness, add something, texture and richness to the story that isn't added when we do the opposite.

Yeah, yeah, I love that.

Thank you for really sort of, sort of condensing that into the big takeaway.

Right.

Well, tell me more about this, Tell me more about this book because yes, I knew you were writing it and I love it and I'm glad you are.

I'm so excited to read it and to share it.

And that's one of the reasons I wanted to have you on today, is I want you to use this to talk about your book, about what you teach, about how you help.

Because it's easy in this space that we're in to talk about woo woo stuff and good feelings and love and kindness and joy and Kumbaya and all the rest.

And people that don't live in or dip their toes often enough in that space.

It's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever.

But what you're talking about is real, it's concrete, it's measurable, it's truthful.

You described going from a place of fear based and pressure based and having to prove and the daily grind and this and that.

And people know that they've seen movies or they've lived that way, or they've destroyed themselves that way.

And you describe now while you're still in practice, you're not retired and gone off sitting on a hill being a guru, a place of love and joy and kindness and fun.

So talk more about this, this book and this process that's helped you.

Yeah, yeah.

So I, I, so let me start here because I, I really appreciate what you just said.

I really have been talking about what we once called soft skills or, or people called woo.

These are as I've walked this journey, I really have come to recognize these are the hard skills.

These are 100% skills that matter, that make the difference.

See, I can learn science.

I love medicine, by the way.

I, I and I love the science of medicine.

And I, and I stay current and I, if there's a new medication or a new process or a new procedure, I want to know about it and I want to put it on offer for my patients.

I really love that.

But the distinction for me is this, these days, that now I really operate from the intersection of science and spirit, a different intersection than before.

And what that really calls me to do is to, to see the essence of every single person that I interface with.

Whether that's in medicine, whether it's somebody I'm mentoring, whether it's a family member, whoever, someone that I'm coaching, a talk that I'm giving, whatever I'm doing, it really calls me to have that be the first thing I acknowledge.

The first thing that I acknowledge is that there is, there is an essence that I can call divine, you can call soulful, you can call dignity.

It doesn't matter to me what you call it to know that there is a dignified human being with whom I'm interfacing, who wants to walk on this journey.

And so part of this is to really support.

So the framework that I use, Kellen, in this book is called the seven Ls and it really is based on my own process.

And the first one of those is really begin to understand that we have a certain way of listening and looking at the world, right?

And that those that, that there are, that the listenings that we have inform us about what we think about ourselves, what we think about the world and what we think about other people.

And it really happens again, very innocently.

We hear something, it's relatively neutral.

We make meaning of it.

We decide that it means something about us, and then we plant it in what I call an echo chamber that begins.

That really hosts those neural loops that continue to tell us things about ourselves, whether they're true or not.

So I say it like this.

If I'm going to buy a white Mercedes, I go out on the freeway and I will count white Mercedes.

I'll tell you what models they are.

They are gorgeous.

I come home and you say, how many Volkswagens did you see?

And I'm like, I don't even know what you're talking about.

Like, I didn't look for Volkswagens.

There could have been 200.

What do I know?

It's not relevant because it doesn't have anything to do with what I'm looking for.

Right.

When I begin to look for evidence that tells me lies about myself, I build then that library of lives that I call an echo chamber.

So the first step is to really pay attention to what do I listen for?

What am I scouting the world for?

What evidence am I trying to find?

Find that will confirm my story about myself or my story about you or my story about, you know, people in general.

About anything, literally anything.

Because I've got a. I've got a story about everything.

It's all judgment, right?

It's all a decision that I made about this meaning.

But the trick with this first thing is really this.

Are we able to look at those listings and those lookings without judging them, without calling ourselves mourning, without creating more stuff to hold against ourselves?

Right, More stuff in the echo chamber.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So curiosity.

I mean, can we do that from a place of just.

Oh, this is really curious.

There I go doing that again.

Oh, there that is again.

Oh, I only saw that because that's what I was looking for.

So that's just about becoming aware.

There's nothing to do but become aware.

Notice it.

I love that.

It does take practice because so much of what we do is automatic and learned habits.

And 85, 90% of what we do is by habit.

And habits make great servants, but they make crappy masters.

So, you know, auditing our habits and seeing if they're serving us is, like, a really valuable thing.

And that includes how we listen, our internal dialogue, how we look at things.

The lenses, there's another l. Right?

What are the lenses you're wearing as you examine the world?

Right.

And everything else.

Well, that is spectacular.

Keep going.

Well, I was just going to say you know, there's a wide variety of opinion about this, but we have somewhere between 80 and 120,000 thoughts a day.

Depends on what expert you listen to.

We have fewer thoughts, by the way, per day these days than we did 40 years ago.

We also have a smaller vocabulary than we did 40 years ago.

But here's the thing about these thoughts, however many you have, 90% of them are negative.

Only 10% of our thoughts every single day are positive.

And not only are 90% of those thoughts negative, but 90% of those thoughts are redundant.

They are the same things we thought yesterday.

It's the same inner critic babbling away at us about all the stuff that we do wrong or everybody else does wrong every single day, the same thoughts.

We're going to have the same ones again tomorrow unless we interrupt those loops.

And so that's why looking and listening helps us say, oh, there are my habituated loops.

There are my habituated patterns.

When I see this, every time I see this, this is what I see.

Every time I hear, every time I see you raise your eyebrows, I make it mean this about me.

Okay, I'll be careful.

Right.

So if you, as you, as you bring forth this precious work in the book with your seven Ls and you've given us a good explanation of one of them, what is your, like you're offering this.

This is a thing you're doing and putting on offer.

It comes from your own experience and your own learning, your own journey of change, recognizing you were now in a place that you viewed as unsustainable.

I can't do this.

I don't like it, it's killing me, or whatever the language was, and then going on a conscious decade long journey to go somewhere else.

When you offer this to the world, what do you, I was going to say hope or want, what would happen to me or someone else who heard you in the way you meant to be heard and applied this?

In other words, what does your neighborhood there look like or what does the world look like after people hear you and do that?

After you fix us.

And I don't mean that in a negative way at all, but after you provide this value and we all say wow and do that, what happens?

Yeah, so I think ultimately you referred to this earlier as you were talking.

But, but here's, here's what happens is that we become our own best friend, our own best friend, the love of our own life.

Now that sounds also soft and a little swishy and all of that stuff, but here's what it does.

It allows us to expand the field of possibilities of our world, to see beyond what we think we know into areas that we might not have ever considered before, that actually are possible to excavate the life we're longing to live and have been afraid to live.

Brush it off, shine a light on it, and take the steps that you need to live that life.

You know what?

I don't.

I'm sorry.

Please.

So what?

No, no, no, go.

I was just gonna say, you know when you said that.

Become the love of your life.

I don't even think that's weird.

Because if you think about trying to live a life you want, you enjoy, you love what feels good every day, try to imagine that from a place of not liking yourself.

Try to imagine that from a place of the inner critic, of thinking you suck all the time.

Like, the idea that you're living this life you love from this.

From this sucky place doesn't even make sense.

So the idea that you do love yourself and that you.

Your own best friend and you like that, that has to be part of living a life you love, because the other can't even, like, be in the same place.

I would suggest that you cannot create your ultimate life.

Right?

Right.

From a place in which you don't actually just love the being that you are with all your messiness and flaws and quirks and all of that stuff.

We have tools for that.

You know, we have self compassion.

We have self awareness.

We have self.

We have ways of lifting ourselves out of those old, tired, weary conversations in which we only create limited possibilities for our lives.

Right.

No ultimate life from that space.

This is my limit.

This is what I can create.

It's nice.

I 100% agree.

So I want to know.

People are going to want.

They're going to hear this, and you're going to take it and use it in lots of ways.

And they're going to want to know when the book's coming.

They're going to want to know where to find out more.

Carla.

They're going to want to know how to get more juice here.

So we're gonna go.

Even if it's not done yet.

What's your projected release date and what are you gonna have for the people who hear this after it comes out in a.

In a.

You know, in October, when.

Where do they go to find more?

Carla.

Get more juice.

Okay.

Yep.

So the book will be published in December.

It is.

It will be a compilation of stories of this really hardy creative framework with lots of opportunities to process through the book, it will come out with a companion workbook so that you can work with it on your own.

And then there will be opportunities to engage in some group work, both online and ultimately probably in a destination, but a couple of varied opportunities to be in learning groups that will really facilitate this process and make a difference, really take you to a place that you are going to love being.

So you can find me@drcarlarottering.com I have a LinkedIn page.

I'm on Facebook.

Yeah.

So if I go jump on Facebook and I find.

Find your beautiful face and follow you.

Are you.

Do you post stuff there that will let me know when things are coming and when to get ready for the book and possible, you know, the workbook and possibly other things if I, if I'm touched by this and I want to do that on LinkedIn or Facebook.

Is that a reliable place to be able to follow you, to know when things are coming and to sign up or get in line or something?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I have a new agreement with myself, which, by the way, I've learned to honor through this process because I no longer am at the bottom of my own list of things to take care of.

So, yes, I'll be posting about once a week, some I have a couple of weeks where I'll be posting twice a week.

You'll know when the book's coming out, you know, when opportunities to be engaged are available.

And I am always, and I mean always open to connection to messaging and conversations.

I welcome that.

So feel free to contact me through any of those places, including direct messaging and stay tuned.

Carla, thank you.

Thank you for being with us today.

Thank you for sharing your heart and, you know, just being, being all.

Carla, I, I have the honor and privilege of knowing you and I love every second of it.

And thank you for, for being here with me today.

Thanks, Kellen, for really inviting me.

It's.

It is always good to be with you always.

Thank you.

I want you all listeners, just take the time to go here.

Carla's sincerity is unmatched.

Her passion and the truth that she teaches, her compassion is unmatched.

And I know that from, from, from knowing her and from being in her presence.

And yes, this is about creating the life you want.

And I can promise you already that if you take advantage of what you've learned here, what you felt here, and what you will find in her material and the book that comes and other things, you will be on a great path to receive, create and experience your ultimate life.

Never hold back and you'll never ask why.

Open your heart in this time around right you right now.

Your opportunity for massive growth is right in front of you.

Every episode gives you practical tips and practices that will change everything.

If you want to know more, go to Kellen Fluker media.com if you want more free tools, go here.

Your Ultimate Life Ca subscribe Your heart in the sky and your feet on the ground.