The Neuroscience of Being Stuck (And How to Break the Cycle)

Welcome to the show. Tired of the hype about living a dream? It's time for truth. This is the place for tools, power and real talk.So you can create the life you dream and deserve your ultimate life. Subscribe, share, create. You have infinite power.Hello and welcome to this episode of your ultimate life life, the podcast that I created five and a half more than that years ago to help people live, not just talk about, but live a life of purpose, prosperity and joy. And to provide not just the information, but the tools and the examples and the encouragement to get to that place because it is possible.Today I'm blessed with a special guest. Have Dr. Dee Poskas, Dr. D,,, whatever, Dr. D here with me as a guest. Welcome to the show.

Thank you, Kellen. Thank you. It's wonderful to be here.

So I've known, I'm not going to, I don't do intros, but I have known Dr. D for many years now. Not 17, 18, so five or six, five or seven years, something like that. Bunch of years. And have, I'm grateful to that.And I know that she's a dedicated, powerful coach and we're having her now on specifically to talk about some new program books and stuff that she's done. And you'll get introduced to her without some formal intro as we go along. I'd like to ask first of all, what, what is the way that you choose?Because we all choose everything. Right. What is the way that Dr. D chooses to add good to the world?

I think the most important way is that I really try to use science to help people to not take themselves so personally and have a better understanding how brilliant they're wired. So they're wired so brilliant in how to use that to move forward, to get through things.So I like to add that with also just a sense of depth for them that they're so, they're so complex, but they're simple at the same time.

So that's, that's good and it's really interesting. So, so let's dive in a little bit more on that.

Okay.

The you use science and to unravel the complexity or to help explain the complexity. Like there's a lot of woo, woo talk about manifestation and all that kind of stuff. And I don't not believe it.It's just sometimes people can't connect that to the bottom line or their sales or whatever. And so talk about this science piece and I know you're, you have a PhD, so talk a little bit about your approach to that.

Yeah. So my PhD is in leadership in human science. So it's the study of how our behaviors and our beliefs create our outcomes.And more than that, of course, it's a study of every leadership theory out there. But what I, I find really fascinating, that just natural is to read about what, what's going on within us that determines what we do on the outside.So for example, I love researching different concepts that happen to people, especially entrepreneurs and high achievers, like doubt. I'm researching doubt right now. And what is that? What happens in our brain with doubt.And there's this thing called false flagging theory, which has been out there. I didn't realize it's been out there, but it's taking that.And so some people try to reframe and either like take doubt and let it become a manifestation or a part of their belief system, or they ignore it. So then there's impulsivity.But through understanding science, this false flagging theory, it says that you can use doubt to help you, so it slows down your impulsivity. It tells you to what wisdom would be here. And it's meant to be like a yield sign. Doubt is not a stop sign.So by helping people to understand, like even that portion of doubt, that little concept that you want to have a fault, the more you have a false tagging theory, it says, let me look at this, let me put objectivity and let me not personalize it. And then people are more comfortable with doubt as an asset and instead of unknown.And so that's what I like to do is I like to use science of uncovering everything that they go through and seeing it for a viability versus more of a detriment.

That's really, really an interesting thing and I want to repeat some of it back and make sure that I've understood this right. So doubt, normally without any analysis or thinking, doubt makes me go, would make somebody go, oh, I don't know, I don't know if I should do that.I, I, yeah, I doubt that'll work. And we don't do anything more than that. And so that puts us in a place of dithering and not, not moving. Right? I'm, I'm dithering.Oh, I don't know if I can finish this song or I don't know if I can do a performance or I don't know if I can, this investment will work or whatever. And so that puts us in a place of dithering and from that place we don't do anything. So the answer is we've Decided.

Yeah.

And the decision is always no.

Yeah.

And what you're telling me is if I. If I feel the doubt and I understand something new, which is. This isn't. No, this is do a little more research. Not as a procrastination technique.

Right.

But as a. As a prudent activity. And so what it occurs to me, I'm going to test this and you tell me if this is right or wrong. Yeah.I'm going to do a little more research and I'm going to give myself, you know, five days to do it. So I get five day. So without that knowledge, I go, well, this means I don't know. And we know for marketing, you know, confused people take no action.So if I know this is just a yield sign. You use that statement a minute ago. Maybe it was before we started recording. I don't know.But it's a yield sign that says, hang on for a sec, and I'm going to make a decision by the end of the week. Then I can understand that it didn't mean. No, it meant maybe. And the maybe has a deadline.

Yeah, well, well said. Because what you said is what happens to people is when they feel doubt, they actually think what's called hindsight bias. It means, no, I don't.I doubt this. So therefore I mean no. Or they have no faults tagging, and they're like, I'm gonna just do it impulsively. But that was really like.Like you said, it's to take a step back, utilize. It has nothing to do with right or wrong. It's just your brain connecting. This is something new. It is not a state to stay in.

When you teach people about this, do you tell them they need to put a deadline on it so that it doesn't turn into no, we have to.

Otherwise it could be it leads into, you know. You know, talked a little bit about my work. All my work goes back to, like, being stuck. Like, what's the science of being stuck?And so if we do not put an external factor on it as a person. Right. Then what will happen? It becomes a state.So literally, a client or a person or achiever, any of us can stop moving because we found evidence to doubt that. So it must mean I should not keep moving.But if we say instead, and you and I talked about this before we got in the podcast, if we say instead, there's doubt, but there's got to be a bigger piece here. That means I pivot. Doubt means I need either more information or I pivot. But it doesn't Mean it becomes a state.And so you are measuring when's the next time? Is it five days?

Yeah, it seems like. Seems like the establishment of a decision point. Yeah, it gives you. Is just critical to understanding this because you're right.Doubt by itself means no because it feels uncomfortable, you know, and what it doesn't mean. No, what it means is, hang on a sec. And a sec is till the end of the day or till the end of the week.And we have to finish the sentence in our heads, in our sort of context. Not now, but I'm going to decide. I need to think about it for. Not forever, a day, two days. Okay, we'll decide. And that means not. I'm not deciding.So that's really interesting. That's a fabulous example of what you do. And I hadn't heard you walk through that particular emotion or feeling before, so that's really good.So tell me, how many things are there like that? So there's the feeling of doubt. And you said your box is the science of being stuck. What does stuck mean?

So stuck people say it. And right now in marketing, if you look, you will see a lot of things. You're in your business stuck, you know, and the marketing thing is stuck.Well, that actually we were researching the last couple of years. It. It's a. What people feel, but they don't realize. It's a psychological state that they put their brain in their heart, you know, in.So you're stuck in different ways. So it means you don't. One area of stuck people psychologically burned out. That's one area. They are burned out because they don't.Have you talked about this? The why? The sense of purpose. They're running from one thing to the next thing without discernment. They're.They're literally impulsively overworking themselves so that for them we have an inventory and they actually can assess which of the stock cycles they're in. But they're more. They're more. They're more than one. There's like five of them.So that person is dealing with life in a way that they're keeping busyness as a sign for moving forward. I'm just going to keep busy. They're not aware of that. They wouldn't say that necessarily, but that is a true stuck cycle, and so they can avoid it.

I want to interrupt you there because it's so interesting. See, I haven't been with you. You talked.You've mentioned the five stuck cycles before in other conversations we've had, but I haven't been with you through these. And so when you say that about burnout, what it feels like to me is, okay, I'm not making the progress I want.I have the idea that busy is in badge of honor. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm just going to keep going and pretty soon I'm just stuck.And the stuckness is I'm so overwhelmed by this mass of things that I could do. They're not parsed or organized. And so this. It's not that. Yeah, so that's a very interesting overwhelm, overwhelmed, stuck.

Cool, isn't that? Yeah. And that's what's so cool.What I love about the neuroscience piece is it, it tells us what's happening within and makes when people hear that, they're like, okay, so they're instead of just saying you're stuck, we can actually assess what area of stuck.And then once you know the stuck and you know, if you don't deal with it like that stuck cycle, a burnout is different than like a decision paralysis stuck cycle. Right. One needs a system, the other needs a flowchart.You know, there's two different things, but so people just generically say stuck cycle or we're stuck. But it's a very true thing. It's, it's a psychology of state that can last.There are people that will have a stuck cycle for a year, two years, a stagnant suck cycle. And it could be one area of their life. It could be this particular area in business.But there are people that have a stuck cycle throughout their whole life. Like the stuck cycle of over commitment.There are people that say, and they'll tell you that in the rational mind, they'll say, yes, I, I'm a people pleaser. I keep people pleasing with no intent of changing it. Right. They know it.The rational mind fakes them out that they're doing something because they talked about it. But that's a very serious stuck cycle.When you're over committing continually for the hope that somebody would recognize you, realize you and acknowledge you, that is a different part.So that one connects to the heart, heart, brain, which you know, three brain science, which is another fascinating piece that one has to be dealt with. Very different. See, is that fascinating though?Like each of these different pieces, neuroscience have explained, you have to dig them in research articles, which most people don't, but what happens in there. And they play out very differently. And we did a study and we found in Our focus group 80% of people misdiagnosed what Stuck cycle.They're in and they're like, yep, I know it. I'm just going to do this thing. But it doesn't.

It's the wrong thing. This is really good. And so what I want to emphasize for listeners is this. She's talking about stuck cycles and she keeps using the word neuroscience.And for many people that's like, oh, crap, my eyes glazed over. I don't talk about this. I know, it's fun. It's fun for you and I enjoy it too.But people, what I want you to understand in terms of understanding Dr. D's work is she doesn't just identify the problem. Okay, this is a problem.

Right.

And you know what? It's really cool. It does this weird path in your brain and all that other crap. She does that. But then the outcome is like we talked about.If you're going to have doubt, it only matters if you're going to give yourself back up, yield, sign. But you give yourself a deadline. It's not doubt meaning cancel. It's doubt for a day or a week and then you hold to that.And I have the sense that every one of these stuck cycles that you identify doesn't stop with identifying the name of the stuck cycle and talking about the fancy. And fun. I agree, it's fun. I read in the book that I read. But the fun stuff, knowing that happens in the brain.But then there's a set of practical behaviors like I cut my fingernails this way and that solves this stuck cycle. Yes, it had nothing to do with fingernails, but there's a set of metaphor.

There is, exactly.So it's kind of like, you know, I always think of it, it's kind of like being a doctor, you can assess it, but then you also want to treat it and treat the right one.And as a coach that loves to experience, experiment and see it apply, apply and prove it, like, we're very results driven and like this tool will help that specifically because we did the research, we applied it. But you're right, it's a path. It's like that science helps us to understand the mechanism and the coaching help us to understand the path.That's what I think. It's, it's phenomenally fascinating and it's allows people to get behind it, you know, like really. Oh, okay, now I understand.But I don't have to overthink it. I just have to think, okay, that's why that wasn't working. That's why just saying I'm a people pleaser doesn't work. That doesn't work at all.But it, what's happening in my brain is the amygdala is. And I won't go into data. I could go all over the brain. What happens in the brain and over commitment cycle is very different than a burnout cycle.So now I know what's happening in here and I need to stop, stop it for this many reasons. And this is how I do it.

I love your analogy of the doctor because the doctor doesn't just ask one question. I my, hey doc, I hurt. Okay, good. Here's what you do. No, you gotta, you gotta say, well, where do you hurt? How often is it on a scale of 1 to 10?I just am doing some diagnosis two years ago, two and a half years ago now I did some stuff in my back on the right side that's going to be permanent because the discs are really deteriorated. And as I walk through different possibilities of treatment and get sent to this guy and that guy, they're doing all kinds of this diagnosis.I'm going to have a nerve conduction test and a few weeks and this, that and the other. But the point is the diagnosis and I'm not going to understand all the words that they're saying. But that diagnosis is what you said.It lets me then understand what, which thing is happening so that I don't take the wrong course of action to fix it.

Exactly, exactly. Well said.And so often what people are doing is just taking the wrong course of action because someone said that's a good course without first really researching what's the diagnosis here. Just because at your colleague, that's another entrepreneur or a high achiever, that's true for them, it is not true for you.Just like you would do at a doctor, you would ask for a second opinion. What else, what else in that diagnosis? And the same thing is true when you're trying to fix something. It's not a one off you.It's a complex system that you are continually working with your coach to uncover, hold accountability and then challenge you to break a cycle that for some people lasts, you know, decades, months, but a lot of them, it's a long time.

So I, I had to dig into this because I think it's really interesting, the neuroscience I believe in, we know neuroplasticity and that's the foundation of all human change and everything else. But the nuances of why we're stuck or why we don't take the action we know we could take, which is another way to stay stuck, is varied.And often we act like it's all the same thing. Yeah, you're stuck. Okay, you're stuck. Here's what to do. And we don't understand. Is it what, what past experience has brought this?What is your, you know, what is causing this really? And we don't ask enough questions like a doctor to figure out where this came from.And what you're saying is you have identified, I think you said, five stuck cycles that are different and that require different approaches to be handled quickly and effectively instead of just wandering all over the place.

Yeah, right. Or people say, just tell me the answer. You know, that doesn't work, Callum, because that advice doesn't move anything behaviorally or subconscious.It's really them understanding the path that what. What got you there. And then why is it returning? Well, part of the reason it keeps returning because now you have made a neural path not only in your.Your brain, but it affects your heart and your gut brain. So all three of them work together to work against you just because you didn't get the right idea what is behind that.

Right, so this is the second time you've mentioned three brains. And some people listening will know that the head brain, heart brain and gut brain.And each one of those areas has neurons just like your head does and they communicate in that way. So the idea that you receive intuition, inspiration and guidance from these different places is real.It's not some woo imagination crap because they have similar structures. So talk a little bit about this and how it relates to intuitive guidance that people need to receive.Because everything, especially in times that are changing as fast as we are right now, intuitive guidance is more important now than it's ever been in the universe. So talk a little more about that.

Well, so you already, you already kind of clarified that there's three. What happens is with people when they are in their rational mind, there's a misalignment.So your heart, your heart brain can have anywhere from 40 to 70,000 neurons. The more you are compassionate with yourself and other people, that's what they found out.Develop these neurons and then what happens with you is you, you exude that and places you go because you're building rapport with people, right? It also says, do I belong or not belong?So some people can get misaligned because of like, like, let's say the, the people pleaser, their heart brain is usually out of alignment because they're always wondering do I belong or didn't belong? I need to do all this stuff to belong. It's always a. A conditioned response versus an Unconditional love.So they, we would say that their neurons are probably in the 40,000 versus that capacity of 70,000 so that they're running with that without aligning with the gut. The gut's only purpose, the gut brain has the most neurons. It's the fastest reactor. So if you do not feel safe, the gut will send a response upward.It's faster than a brain going downward. So if you, let's say you're a people pleaser and you lead with the heart brain, you're not allowing them to align before you make a decision.So alignment would be, let me check, is this actually a safe motion? If this person gave me nothing or if I realize I cannot give myself anything, that is a non safe motion.And you could tell your gut that and it would start aligning with the head. Okay. So that means let's not do that set of boundaries.So your, your brain and your head brain is all that it's supposed to do is forecast the rational, your higher brain, which you're talking about, the spiritual part. Wisdom comes when those three are aligned and you sit in that space and it's no longer that you are trying to find something from someone else.You're simply gifting what you have within. Right. Because they're all, they're all aligned. You're not trying to fill something that doesn't need to be filled. That makes sense.So when you're alive, you can listen.

At a higher level that, that makes perfect sense. And you know, one other, another way to think about that is listening. We listen lots of different ways. We listen because we're trying to argue.We listen because we pretend to listen because we don't care. And really we're thinking about something else.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? And we listen to respond, we listen to refute.And what that aligned listening allows us, if we're safe in our own skin and we have nothing to prove, then we can just listen. Allowing people to be who they are and loving them anyway.And we feel no lack of safety because we're not fearful that like we're not enough or they're going to think bad. Like we don't care about that.

Right.

Feeling of certainty occurs when we have that kind of alignment. That's.

Yeah.

How I heard what you said. Yeah.

And so you're listening.So a really cool trick is really, when you're triggered like that, it's really to say I don't have to figure everything out, I just have to get quiet and listen and ask what is my head thinking? What is my heart thinking and what is my gut thinking?And it will, it will say, well it's this and if it's a feature fear based response then that means you're not trying to go out and control the what other people doing. You just bring compassion in and say if that wasn't true about them or myself, what would be, what would be possible?I mean that's a short version of what I do with clients.But literally it's just aligning those three to say it's it, it's never the outside world, it is always the inner landscape that we get to work on and that that creates that freedom.

So I love this conversation and I love the conversation about that and we could have a whole episode on the three brains and their alignment and things that you do to start recognizing it.I'm willing to bet that most people don't even think of those things like the word of three brain and that they have similar characteristics with neurons and that there's real wisdom that comes from all three of those places. Is true. But we're not going to go into that anymore today because we got other stuff to do and that would be a different episode.But it's fascinating and I let that go as far as it did because I want you listeners to understand the depth of the truths that she has already researched and knows and is available to you to create your ultimate life, to get your why to line your actions up with your purpose. What I'd like to shift now is to just another question. You clearly have a wealth of expertise and knowledge, skills and gifts.You also have a group of people, entrepreneurs that you like to serve. You didn't, you didn't fall up this mountain like nobody falls up a mountain. So what, what happened in your life that made this important for you?

Let's see. Well, I'm not like most people where they have one thing that happens.I think it was a very, at a very young age a discernment for things could be better and why are people not as successful as they want to be or why are they treating themselves that way? When I started in leadership, that's when I really started realizing there ha there leadership's a skill and there are better ways to do this.And it became so important because the leader has such a responsibility of they're affecting everybody around them on the way they lead. And so people still get management leadership confused. There's not, there's a big difference.But I feel like people have so little time on the earth and they're not listening to what is their purpose and passion and staying in that. And then what happens is we have a society that's conditioned to buy the next thing or look at the next thing and control it.And that will make you happy. And for me, that didn't seem to make sense. And it does it now, knowing the research.But I wanted to see what is a way that we could be better to ourselves and to other people and build that skill around that. Because we only. I feel like we just have a short amount of time. And I probably what really hit into it is you.You would know this though, Kellen is when I we were. I was in my 20s, I was on a men's soccer league and we decided to climb a volcano that was active but should have not been dangerous.And you do it at night so you can see the. The flames. And here I'm 20 something, it was a team and I'm climbing up this. And I had this sense that, you know what?I think this thing is going to do something. I just sensed it's going to do something. And it started. I mean it really rumbled and we started running down.And at that moment I'm like, this could be a. This, this experience could be very short. Something could happen. And then we started seeing the lava. Luckily went to the other side.But in that moment I'm thinking I'm 20 that we are not guaranteed along, you know, a life of longevity. We're guaranteed to make the most out of our life. I want to start leading differently.And that's when I started getting interested in studying leadership. I want to not be in rumination mind. That's when I started start studying psychology because I thought they had the answers.They have some answers, but that was pivotal. I still remember being there at night and you sit in that volcano and it shakes in it near death.Like you literally know this could be the last minute if we don't get off this thing. And it was for a few people. I think most people made off.But it's those moments that you're like, okay, one, there's something bigger because it said let's leave right now. And we told a whole bunch of people leave. And two, why waste your time in triggered or in.In a mind that is ruminating when there's so much access to what so much more. Like you said, the bigger why. But we have to work with our brain. And that's the limiting factor for a lot of people.So I am obsessed with how to unhook them from their own brain's default zones. Right. And make them understand the brilliance of that brain.

So there's a lot unpack in there. Yeah, we, we have a lot of habitual behaviors. Most of them don't serve us.They're socialized and taught to sometimes innocently and sometimes maliciously that allow that push us to behave or not behave a certain way to fit in.What you've said is we have access through the three brains, through the alignment through intuition, through this higher intelligence to so much more.And yet your heart was aching because you see so many people who live at one third power or in fear or a lot less than they could have because they're not, they don't realize the truth that we just you just explained or they, they hear them and they're not doing anything with them. And so that's led you to this inter in the body, the neuroscience, et cetera.But more than anything, coaching people to realize they have that ability and to encourage and show them how to make the most of it to create more life. And that includes in fact the bottom line. It includes changing their leadership, their money, their business growth and everything else.Because it's really easy in these kind of conversations get lost in the woo woo land and think that everything is about feeling good and that money and business is some on some other different conversation and it's not it's core to this conversation.

Yeah.

Is that, would you agree with that?

I would agree with that because and this is the thing is so many people are not listening to a deeper level.So a business, let's say if you're doing that a business is a, an ecosystem that you're creating and the more that you uncover your own stuff and learn the skill of uncovering it and you help people around you. It's not the money is the bottom line is affected by you.Oh there's an article 2005 about a leader that uncovers that and centers themselves around the purpose. It's the spiritual leadership that's in you researcher.But when you uncover that and you help people around you, your decision making goes up more for the the business. You have triple loop learning for all your team. You have a synergy and they find a sense of purpose there which if you, you know, you know this too.But you're researching anything. We are in what's called an isolation era which means people do not feel a sense of belonging.So it ties to business, your work, your personal work, your belief in something bigger ties to the ecosystem that you create in a business. And that's what fascinates me is we can, we can make it such a beautiful place by. And my niche is neuroscience because it's just so natural for me.But there's other coaches that do it other ways too. But that ecosystem is so powerful.When everybody feels that thread of compassion and that sense of belonging, now more than ever, they're going to need it. Right?

So they are. So let's turn now to the most recent endeavor. We've laid a great groundwork and frame about a lot of things you did.You've just finished the book and you have coming out pretty soon and some material coursework and everything that's centered around another one of these emotions that we feel that has all kinds of complicated effects in us. And it's something that is affects us all the time, every single day in little ways and big ways. So tell us about that.

Well, my book coming out is Balance the Hidden Power of Disappointment. And that was a theme I heard so often. I wanted to see what is the science behind it.Because we just say, well, y' all is disappointed, but we don't realize. What I love about playing with that book was is the first part. All I did is research. What does it do? Why does it so painful for people?Because you and I talked about this. I just get so bothered and frustrated by disappointment. Really makes me mad that I'm mad about disappointment.And so right then it's so frustrating because like, oh, I'm disappointed again. And in the narrative I was that way. I was wired as a kid to be slightly disappointed because I thought the world could look different.And in my head it looked so much different. And then in my patients, I had so little to create that. So it always been a part of me, but it wasn't just me. Like you said, everybody encounters it.What we do with it is very different. So when I put the science, it affects the.Disappointment is a specific part of the brain which we're not going to say because then they're going to read the book. But there's a little mechanism just for disappointment. And that floored me. I thought that is fantastic. That's why it happens so often.But it also affects our shame area. It affects our guilt area. It affects so many different emotions. I felt it was so important that people understood the science.And then we of course were playing with coaching tools, which is the middle part. I created a four phase model that unhooked people from it, made it more resilient. And you know, the book is titled the Hidden Power.It's so powerful when you see what, what disappointment was there to do, not to avoid or not to just talk it haphazardly, it actually can fire certain mechanisms in us to brilliance across our brain. That's what is there to do. We just didn't know that without the neuroscience of it.So I, I'm like, this is a book I have to read or write because I, it's just so frustrating as a person and as achiever that my expectations are just not being met. And so the third part, what we did is we put some case studies in, but also how you can apply it to your teens.And because when I find my clients can talk about this and understand it, then it wasn't something where they stopped taking risks, they took more risks because that's what risk aversion is. I don't want to feel that terrible feeling.And the reason we feel it so terribly because it hits many different centers as well as neuro, many neurotransmitters. So it's such a, like a gut punch is what some people say. I feel like a gut punch.So what I'm excited about the book is I find disappointment at all, you know, working on that in the last few years, spending time with it as a coach, such a positive, powerful tool. And so now I'm kind of like, I don't.I even look forward to disappointment because I know it can ignite something bigger in me or the people around me as long as I know how to coach myself through that. And so that is where the like you and I met. I'm like, I have to write a book.I didn't know it was going to be disappointed because I want to avoid it. But now more than ever, my clients can't wait to get the book because it is.If you're an achiever and or entrepreneur or a coach, you're going to hit it. It's unavoidable. So we shouldn't avoid it. We should take more risk and, and play with it and build a resilience around it.So there were some studies done that actually saw that people did certain techniques that they can build a resilience to access this, you know, bright creative brilliance in their brain. So that is the project I've been working on with you and then it plays out. But it's super cool. I just fascinated with, Well, I, I.

You know, I had the chance to read it and here's what I noticed in reading it, that it is follows exactly the pattern we talked about about in the beginning. There is a feeling when our Expectations don't match reality. Okay, that's a disappointment.It can be anything from, I didn't want it to snow today and it is. Okay. And it didn't. It's supposed to. Maybe it did. I haven't been outside for a while, but that can be a small disappointment.Or it can be, I, I expected this for my birthday and I didn't get it, or I expected this sales funnel to do a certain thing and it didn't. You know, all of those things are areas where your expectations don't meet it.And what I found not just interesting but useful and, and powerful is what you said is disappointment starts in one place and then it had like tentacles. It spreads out to shame. I should have known that was going to happen. Somehow I'm bad. Or anger, I'm disappointed.That idiot or those idiots or the government or God or whoever's to blame, they shouldn't have done that. And so then it triggers an anger response. And there were three or four different kinds. And that's just the first piece. Again, like taking it apart.Stuck cycles. There are four or five things that it might trigger.And then by understanding that, it unlocks for me a set of behaviors that access that power of growth.Because ultimately what we're trying to do is turn disappointment into some growth thing, not just something to be avoided because nobody likes how it feels to be disappointed. And that's what I found.Good, because you took each one through to a set of actions to understand it first, to deal with it, to remove its destructive power and then to have it be a leverage point for growth.

Yeah. And as we work with that, we realize that you gave an example. Some people get disappointed with the weather there.So there's people like high achievers. We know it takes a little more to get them disappointed, but then they get stuck.So that that plan is you can build resiliency by doing those coaching activities to the next level. So your risk level goes up, but it's in a informed, optimistic way. Because now you're no longer trying to avoid disappointment.You're leaning into it and you're understanding. Okay, it's a mechanism in my brain and if I access that in a way that's methodical or strategic, I will know.This is kind of funny, you know, this is amazing. It got triggered and therefore, what do you think I'm missing here?But it also means then it will give you a sense of urgency for finding something new you wouldn't have found. So that is the cool thing about it.

Well, I love this because, you know, we were talking about marketing activities before we started. And the idea of, well, anybody's. The idea of marketing is I want this to work. I'm afraid it won't because I've been disappointed before.And so instead of diving in, we're like, oh, you know, I'm avoiding that sense of disappointment. And this is so clear about how beneficial this is.Because if I develop resilience, I understand that this is just disappointment and I'm going to do this, this, and this. So then my willingness to take bigger, sensible, but bigger risk is accelerated. Because I'm not blindly saying I just want to be disappointed again.We're saying, I don't care. I'm going to try this. And if I am disappointed, I know what to do with it. It's not a problem.

Yeah, yeah, well said. Right? It's no longer a mystery. It's just a part of a process that you understand and walk through that. And that's what the fascinating part.And we find that the more people in this context, the more your team can be coached on that. They will, they will want to add input, they will want to learn to learn, and they will want your business to grow.That's what the cool thing we found out is if they uncovered it and you guys talked about it and then put your data points. So one thing that the book talks about is we can measure data.Let's say it was marketing and we do this in our team is we measure the data, not the supposition or the assumption. What did the data say? Is it working? Is it not working? What's. Is it a pivot or do we stay?And that's one thing disappointment and understanding the mechanism for can do. It can allow you to stay with something a little longer. If it's going to have Parisian versus what is. It's called stacking.It's called disappointment. Stacking is what they found out. What people will do is something will go wrong.And you ever heard that they'll say, then I shouldn't have done this too, and they shouldn't have done this. They stack their disappointments instead of excavating them. So now we have a lineage of like a Christmas tree lights inside our brain.And it's all psych. Cyclical versus, you know, I just want to unplug that light so it doesn't stack to the nest. The disappointment. You're. You're starting to see them.I found that it's very fascinating.The tools say, let's clean that out so you're not Putting this next light in this next slide and you're actually thinking, okay, this is a separate place. What can I transform? What, what is new here versus most people when they. It's called a spiral.They stack the disappointment and then it becomes a spiral and they're like, I'm paralyzed. I do not want to do anything for it versus find it. It's fascinating thing that we have wired in a brain.I mean it's brilliant that stuck there in a little place in our brain and has. It's a mystery that we can solve now. And it allows us so much movement and free freedom not only with the tasks.So we talk about task and business, but the relationships in business. How many times people like that person disappointed me because they didn't do this? Right. That was disappointing because they kept doing this.Now we know that if we unhook that, we can have better relationships with people too because we're seeing the data behind and not making a judgment call.

Which is that disappointment stacking sounds like what happens in a, in a personal relationship when people stack one thing. You know, you did this and you said that and then they start bringing back all these old things and then you end up with this big stack of crap.Anyway, I want to ask you a question.I've avoided asking until now intentionally and because we've talked about all this stuff in the brain and a little bit of guts and gut brain and spiritual stuff. Who are your clients?

So my clients are high achievers who they're working for small giants, companies like that. Well, or they may have come from corporate, but they're high achievers.Some of them are coaches, most of them are entrepreneurs and I have some sold marriage. All the entrepreneurs have the same thing in common. They're stuck somewheres. They want to grow and they don't want to be a toxic culture.They really want to invest in their people. They just don't know how. They didn't have the formal leadership training and therefore they. They want to expand.Expand in communication, language, understanding each other, and then systems that will help them be probably more productive in that way.

So what are the sizes of the companies you have? You've told me before you have an optimal size.

Yeah, I do love working with two different programs, but most of our clients are about 5 to 25, 30 million. Actually we have someone.

You can stop there. The reason I saved that till now is because I want you listeners to understand 5 to 35 million.So these are real companies with real products, real services that are doing business in the world. And I said earlier, it ties to your bottom line.And so all of this emotional and intellectual growth that she's providing these leaders is for the growth of real companies with real people, teams with real bottom lines in the real world, creating business. And saved that till now because I wanted you to hear all of the learning and then get rid of any idea that you have.Well, that's nice, but it doesn't work in the real world. It is in the real world and I knew the answer, but I saved it till now because I wanted to make this point anyway.Is there anything else I didn't ask you that you were dying to get here in the, in the conversation?

I love that question. I think you, you are very provocative questioner. So I think you asked everything. I mean, it's something I'd like to share.Like when we talked about Stock Cycles, there is a free inventory that we have. Just go to stockcycles.com and it, it will assess so you stop kind of guessing what stuck cycle you are on and that then it leads to disappointment.But it's a really cool inventory that will say this is where you're at and these are a couple steps you can take. So stuck cycles.com is our way to just get started on movement.

Well, I was going to ask you next because people have heard this and they're going to be looking forward for the book. And what I want to know is where do people find you? Where will they be able to tell?You know, check in that you're posting when the book's coming soon and they'll know and hear more of your explanations and your conversations. Where, where can people go to find more of Dr. D. Yeah.

So our Instagram account is Blue Egg Leadership. We talked about Stock cycles dot com. We have blueeg leadership dot com that talks about our programs, but it also posts where the book is at.When's that coming out? Some of you, though, really like Instagram and Facebook to to so just follow us. You can track it down.You'll see Blue Egg Leadership and I'll say Dr. D coach there and that will give you the latest. It also gives you little tidbits of what we're talking about. Like this week it was doubt versus discernment and how can you know the difference?So it's an active way to listen to some coaching and get to think about how it might work in your life or change in your life.

And the Blue Egg is real and it's very pretty. Sometime you'll see it in one of the pictures There's a blue egg and it's beautiful. All right.Blue egg leadership on instagram, Facebook and stuck cycles.com. follow it and be sure and take advantage of this.The explanation that she gave you here of the neuroscience isn't just interesting data points, it's empowering truths that let you understand and then take control of what's happening so you can turn this stuff to your good Dr. D. Thanks for being here today and sharing what you have with us.

Thank you, Kellen, for doing all of this. Appreciate it.

You are welcome.So, listeners, look, you heard her brilliance, you heard the truths about, and you probably recognize yourself in two or three of these things at least.And that means you can take advantage of this, because the whole point of the podcast is to help you with the tools and the teaching and the encouragement and you can create whatever you want. And the fact is, you have. So if you don't like what you got, that means there are new things to learn and do. So you create something else.And all of that is in service of creating your ultimate life. Go back and you'll never ask why.

Open your heart.

And this time around, right here, right now, your opportunity for massive growth is right in front of you. Every episode gives you practical tips and practices that will change everything.If you want to know more, go to kellenflukermedia.com if you want want more free tools? Go here. Your ultimate life ca subscribe. Stand with your heart in the sky and your feet on the ground.