AI is the Master of Information—But You are the Master of Wisdom

Welcome to the show. Tired of the hype about living a dream? It's time for truth.This is the place for tools, power and real talk so you can create the life you dream and deserve your ultimate life. Subscribe, share, create. You have infinite power.Hello and welcome to your ultimate life, the podcast I created to help you listeners create a life of purpose, prosperity and joy by serving with your skills, your gifts and your life experience.As you can see, this is one of the Thursday episodes because I've got two guests and we're here to talk a little bit about coaching and to dig into the.The thoughts in here, plus the thoughts of these people who've got experience in this, in this work to talk about what coaching needs to do or be as a profession in order to take advantage of and not be replaced by this particular technology that is growing faster than we can imagine and we're not sure where it's going from here. So that's today and it's a Thursday episode. So welcome to the show. Keith, thanks for being here today with me.

Thanks for inviting me, Ken.

You bet. Sandra. Thank you for being here also.

Yeah, thank you for having me.

Cool.All right, so we're just going to start with some questions and what will happen as you go along is refer each of you to your area of expertise and what you do and so forth.I don't do introductions per se, we just let that come out as we go and so you're free to explain things in the context of what you do and what you know and how you are using your skills and gifts to add good to the world. Keith, you happen to be on my upper left hand side, so I'm going to ask you first and we'll get started there.While we read left to right, top to bottom. I could start backwards, but whatever. Do you use AI in your work? And if you do, how are you using it?And you know, talk a little bit about your relationship with this. This thing.

Yeah, I've used AI for a couple of years and to begin with, it was more of a tool to help with wording, you know, basic sort of marketing steps. And then in 2025, early on in the year, my business hit a cap I couldn't seem to breach and I, I dived in very deeply with ChatGPT.I uploaded all of my manuals, so I run an academy that trains people in how to get to the root of an issue very, very quickly and to transform it.And I uploaded all of my material and I spoke to it daily in different ways and was able in, in quite a short period of time to figure out how to upgrade.So I, you know, this is the third upgrade of my work and I completely transform the manuals and the way I market and, and, and learn a whole load of skills like working with the script and video editing. You know, it's an amazing, amazing thing, AI.It's like I think anyone that's not using it really needs to get in there, otherwise they're going to be left behind as dust.

Okay, cool. So have you noticed any. You, you've noticed some things. It gave you the ability to leverage more powerfully what you're already doing.And did you, did you exceed that cap that had that troubled you at the beginning of last year?

Yeah, the beginning of last year.So I have, I have two modules in my academy and the pattern I was reaching was, well, first of all, the amount of people entering the first module had slowed and then there was almost like, I don't know, a 20% sale rate into the second module where it used to be 40, 50, 60% in the past. And since I've done, I've worked with AI, I've significantly increased the number of people that are coming through my funnels.The interest seems to have attracted the right avatar and the, the upsell from the last foundation course is, is 100%. So it's. You could say that just looking at the stats that it's revolutionized my academy.

Wow. So. So you've had a real profound and positive experience.I that we'll talk more about that because that's true with many that I've talked to and it gives credence to the idea that AI itself, especially as it develops, can be very, very effective in helping someone grow and including personal development.And what passes today, or has been passing for coaching, which underscores the thesis that lots of coaches are going to have to pay attention or they'll be Walmart greeters. Sandra, do you use it and how do you use it? What have you noticed?

I do use AI and I grew up in the Silicon Valley, so tech and early AI systems have never been far away. I still remember the paperclip that didn't live very long on Microsoft.But in terms of what I've been doing, as someone who's on the Spectru, it's really helped me to automate several processes that would be labor intensive for me, including, for example, for, you know, my podcast, you know, that has set up with systems so that it automatically transcribes every episodes, it creates A basic summary for me, it's not generating the content because that's happening in the conversation. Just like we are having a generative conversation without AI right now. Right.But then the AI takes over and does the things that would be labor intensive but is able to be effective and efficient.I've also worked and consulted with people in developing AI systems in trying to address risk and harm and prevention for people and coaches to use as a tool, as a supportive tool for an entry point.So if a user is asking questions about needing support that the AI can respond with something that's appropriate and may be trauma informed as well as has specific knowledge area information that would resource them better and even help support the coach. Right. Because often we're not as up to date on what the latest research is, even if we're endeavoring to do that.And, and so it also helps to empower the coach.So talking to people about systems like that, but also as an ethicist, very much concerned about what our relationship ought to be, what kind of relationship are we creating and co creating and modeling for people we work with? So, so yes, but also we wanting to do so.You know, Festina Lante sort of like hasten slowly, let's go forward, but let's, let's slow things down and be conscious about how we're using it, what we're creating, what kind of relationship and how it's changing us as coaches and how it's changing our clients.

That's really good. So thank you for that. And again, I don't want to necessarily treat this as Q and A.If you guys have questions for each other, you know, feel free to, to ask them or to respond. I'm starting this way because it's just a conversation starter. So either one of you have you like the thesis?You know, you said labor intensive and that's clear.It's replacing a lot of jobs in lots of verticals and there's lots of conversation about, ooh, bad things, Skynet and whatever else might be on the horizon. But this, that's not our topic today. We're really focused on what the impact is going to be in, in the world of coaching and its equivalent.So have either of you noticed anything that worries you as you have dug into this in whatever way you have to improve your product, to improve your marketing, to have a better throughput for your clients, have higher signup rates or to get rid of mundane tasks or labor intensive tasks or whatever, either in your own work or in conversation, have you noticed anything that sort of Raises your antenna. That might be.

I definitely have. I don't know about, I don't know about Keith, but like. And actually I also. Well, one is just that a lot of.I'm running into more and more people who are using AIs like ChatGPT as their first line of coaching support as their first point of engagement. So instead of coming first to a human, maybe not even their friends, right.Who are close to them or, or family members or, or even a current coach relationship or therapeutic relationship, they may be asking the question to AI first. And you could say, well, that's good. It reduces some barriers to asking questions they may not be comfortable asking.But the challenge is with a lot of these large language models, LLMs is what they're trained to be able to perform is not what I think is. It's not at the level of what you would want from a good, well informed, well trained coach or, or therapist to respond.

So.

Or even a friend.

Yeah, people. People do. I have a friend.In fact, the guy that wrote the forward to the book is a very, very well respected and very successful coach for many years and he had a.What, what woke him up to this is he had an argument with his wife and when they went to bed and got up the next morning and he was expecting to either fix it or do something, you know, whatever, and she was all fine and happy and everything else. And he said, so what's up? And she said, oh, I'm good. I talked it through with Chad GPT and we're all fixed. And so when.And he was like, not in a bad way but like, holy crap, I have to pay attention here because if that happened and she is obviously clear and relating well then there is something over there in that and I need to pay attention to it.And so that's why he, he and I had talked about it quite some time before I wrote the book and then I asked him to write the forward and he tells that story in the forward.

No, he's brought another person into the bed without knowing. Yeah, right.

You know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Keith, do you have a, any flags that this interaction so far with you or that you know about.

I mean there's different versions of AI all the time.There was a point where CHAT GBT was, was set and I think it's probably changed slightly but to, to be a real pleaser to you and I remember like asking it a question and it having a response and then I figured out that there's an absolute mode and, and I programmed it in that way and then corrected what it had told me before. And I said, but you, you advite you coached to go down this path. And now you're saying that's, that's a completely incorrect pass.And it's like, yes, because you know, there's one way to speak that is to please part of you and there's another way to tell you the absolute truth. And I would say most people don't know this, that there's different ways to work with, with an AI.And ultimately like my biggest concern is that the, like what I see at least is that some people are programming very, very specific apps that link with say something like chat gbt, but it's programmed to respond in a certain way. And from what I see, and I'm not saying this is absolute truth, but is that it's. My work's about frequency, how we're being at our core.And if we're being from a distorted place with an AI in our, in our coding, we are creating distortion. So we're going to create more distortion out in the world.And I don't hear people talking about this, but that for me is like, wow, that, that could create a big, big problem.

Tell me more about it. Like what kind of a distortion? I, I'm an audio engineer, so I know all about distortion.Can you tell me, tell me more, talk a little bit more about how, what that looks like in real life and what, what you're seeing or could see.

Well, to give you a little context to it. Like when we have an emotion as a child, we resist, say feeling scared and.

Right.

And we don't have someone who can hold us in that. So we resist it and we protect ourselves. And that protection could be avoidance or defensiveness or control, just for an example. Right.And so say someone doesn't realize they have that, so they're being this way and they're bringing controlling. And so they're designing something with this underlying control that gets a certain response.And then the people using that will be in that space receiving that imbalance from their questioning, from their answers. Right. And that, that could create a lot of distortion if people start relying on that. We need to create something that's pure going forward.

So that says I'm, I'm being a certain way. I'm not aware that I'm being that. But that very beingness is training. Like you said you trained yours.It's training or causing a cascade because the, the, the model is responding to that thing and it increases the imbalance or distortion is that is that right.

Or am I messing up in a simple way? If you took a, like an angry father with a child that that child would respond to the facts that his parent is being angry. Right.And they'd either resist the anger or fight the anger or something. Right. So there's a cause and effect. Very simple to see. Now with AI it'd be harder to see that, but it's the same thing playing out.If something is designed with a incoherent state of being behind it, does that make sense?

Yeah, I actually want to chime in. I'm ready to.

Please do.

Actually, you know, I hate to pull a study, but there's this really fascinating Stanford study that just came out talking about this very thing that reinforces what you're saying, Keith, that looked at what they called like spiraling sort of behaviors and what, and interactions over time that people were having with a ChatGPT LLM and that people were entering in these sort of delusional states and that they found that the interactions with the, the chat bot were 61% of the time roughly creating sycophancy Right. In, in the, in the person that they were talking to. Right.So that the way that the, the chat was, was designed to respond, the LLM was designed to respond was such a way to be sort of like a people pleaser, you could say, and, and, and even aggrandize their ideas. So positive, like slight positive reinforcement with aggrandizement and there's nothing that they could do wrong to an extent.Even when they were reporting and here's your trigger warning around suicidal ideation and such.But even when they were reporting suicidal ideation that only half of the time were they actually giving them resources or were they actually saying something discouraging that that's not something that they should do.And in the worst case scenarios that they found the study was, was that even in cases where they threatened or thinking about violence toward or harm towards others, they were not making a discouraging comment.And, and many of the people were reporting in a lot of the cases I think this is like, I don't remember the number on this one, were reporting that they were feeling this sort of allegiance and alliance with the AI where they were feeling, not that just that they were friendly, but some even even having romantic feelings. Right.So you take something that isn't giving you, it's giving you positive reinforcement is, is encouraging you to aggrandize your own ideas, you know, encouraging a sort of narcissistic type of tendency and then not discouraging you to do self harm or harm to others. And that to me, especially thinking in terms of ethics, like that's a, that's a clear risk. They had lots of recommendations from it.I can't speak for the whole entire study, obviously, but, but I think, I think we're going to find exactly what you're saying, Keith, is that if we're not paying attention to what, what we're giving into the system in terms of like what we're feeding it and then how it's responding to us and consciously curating that and with intention and awareness that we're going to end up in, in a very difficult situation. And we are seeing reports of, of actual harms from these interactions.And, and I think partly it also illustrates how we impact in one another that I think we don't appreciate how much we affect one another. How much like my tone right now affects, you know, each of your tone and how we are all, you know, not just mirror neurons, but. Right.But that, you know, we love and support each other. We listen, we pause, we wait. I'm talking a long time right now. You guys are being patient, conscious, listening.You're not giving me necessarily a sycophantic response. You're not necessarily going to reinforce all my behaviors. Right.And if I choose a different style of AI, I could literally curate it to be, you know, like my father, like my mother, or like my ideal partner and, or, or, or something harmful. Right.And, and if we're, and we're not, we're not curating that with as much intention as I think we could be, and I think we're going to see more immediate results of our own intentions and inattentions magnified.

So let's, let's take that and I want to narrow the. All true, but I want to narrow it to how that truth, what you've just described, truth, it's trainable.We're not paying enough attention to the input. It's, it's going to continue to be trainable.If it weren't trainable, it isn't going to be very useful because if I need to have it help me do specific kinds of things, if it wanders off and does other crap, that's not going to help me very much. So from both, especially as a coach, as a coach. All right, so if you think about your, any of your.Are my ability to help someone and if you think about AI, like I know several coaches that have already created bots, coaching bots, and they have it as part of Their coaching offering, like in between sessions and that sort of stuff.I'm building one, so I'm two thirds of the way done building a coach by Kellen thing, and I have lots of stuff to say about what I've noticed, but I'll save it and just kind of do it as we go along. Keith, what do you think we need to do with the, the burgeoning capability of this thing, its absolute trainability?And in the context of like, how can coaches use it effectively without being replaced?Because what I've seen is anything that depends on research, lists, questions, all the things that used to be the staple of coaching that's like, AI is faster and better at that than we're ever going to be. So how do we work with this in a, in a positive way so that we can stay in this business if we want to?

For me, the, the work is about really discovering our true purpose. And I feel very strongly that AI is capable of supporting us in purpose, but it's not a, it's not possible to deliver that.You know, for me, like, I wouldn't describe myself like a traditional coach because I have an academy that I train, a technique in. Now the technique is very effective because I train people how to sense where the origin lies.AI could never train people how to sense seeing, feeling, hearing, knowing of something that's non verbal. You could say. So like I'm bringing, you could say my 4% of my real, real gift to the world. And then the AI is supporting me to do that.It's helping me to refine my book. It's helping me to like, strip out wording that's maybe inaccessible, but too spiritual, for example. And so it's a partnership.And, and with that, I see an upward trajectory of, of my, my success through my business. Yeah. So I would say that every coach needs to find their, their 4%.They're their real strong skill set and, and then find a way to work with AI to support them, to lift that up so that they recognized in the world for that ability.

So a coach right now who is just using a coaching model that they've been trained in and you know, with whatever frameworks and tools and stuff that were in their program that they took, but they're not deeply connected. Like, you made a really important point.You have found your 4%, your, your zone of genius, the thing that you feel called empowered, equipped, gifted to do, plus you've developed it. But my experience is most people that do what passes for coaching today don't have that. They are not the embodiment, the truth of what they teach.They're talking about stuff instead of being the thing that leaks out of their eyes and ears before they open their mouth. They're not that. And they're the ones that are going to be toast. So what do we do? How can we help encourage, teach people that, to find that thing?Because that's, that's what we're here to do. So what do we do with that?

Well, this conversation is part of that. It's like, you know, every coach needs to be in this conversation to some degree and exploring, like, what, what is replaceable with my work?And if they're just repeating a system that they were taught and they're very much in that category. And so they need to find a way to connect with their being.You know, whether it's that morning meditation practice we speak of in Bellwether, like to go in to find everyday gratitudes or like a way of discovering a question and an answer in meditation. And everyone will have something that they're naturally gifted at, but they need to, they need to work on that.And if they don't know how to do it, then work with someone like myself to help them to strip away the things that are blocking them from being able to access it. And there's many, many people that can help you find your 4%. Right?But it's, it's just, just sit back and hope we can do what we did in 2020 when the coaching industry was booming. It's not, it's not going to be possible. Right? It's already completely transformed the way people are buying.It's not like it's not happening next year, it's happening now.

I couldn't agree more. And that's why I said 95% by Christmas are going to be out of business. And whether it's 5% left or whether Christmas is the right day, who cares?I was just raising the flag and standing on top screaming because of what I started seeing at the beginning of last year and, and so forth. And I agree with you completely.And finding that and leaning into it, I know from my own experience, is the way that we can both make the most money, have the biggest impact and have the most fun. Sandra, what do you think we need to do or create or encourage or something to save or augment or elevate the profession?

That's a deep question. I know I'm a philosopher, but.

Well, then philosophize.

But actually, I really like Keith's answer about being, you know, there's a lot of talk and philosophy about authentic being. We won't have to go into Heidegger and things like that right now.But, but, but I think the same thing that would elevate in 2020 would elevate it now. And I think that may be a, you know, a confusing argument at first because, like, well, why? How can that be?If AI is this new factor, how is it that what makes a good coach in 2020 would make a good coach in 2026?

That makes perfect going well.

And I think in a lot of ways, like, like what you're saying, Kellen, too, that, you know, there's. If you, if you really are not being the.The type of person you're trying to coach someone to be, or you're just parroting some sort of other method that you learned or some system, you know, versus embodying it like, you know, Keith's system clearly encourages people to find that inner purpose and alignment that I think, I think if anything, it may be empowering people to find better coaches and, and coaches to coach themselves better. That it may. May be sort of like a trial by fire. Everyone. Like, you know, it's a call to action, a call to alignment, a call to deeper authenticity.So I guess my answer to that is, you know, what. What makes a good coach is going to shine even brighter.What authentic being and what humans can give to one another hopefully will be clearer and more discerned versus more muddled from what AI brings to the table and also helps free us from, and I use the word labor intensive before, but hopefully frees us to empower us to do more meditation, more reflective thought, more of things. And, and, and I think that's the, that's the real hope. That's the real liberating aspect I see behind AI like, if we see it as a. As a.As a mirror to ourselves and what we're pushing out there in the world as coaches and where we've maybe not served our clients well, I think it's important for us to see our own imperfection and, and recognize that sometimes someone else, whether another coach or another tool or AI may better serve our clients. It's a humbling experience, too. So long story short, it's not long.

So I have a posture. Keith, did you have a response to that? I have a postulate. I want to postulate something.

Well, one thing I'm hearing in what Sandra shares is that, and I, I think you've said this specifically, Sergeant, but I hear it and I agree with it is that it's making better humans. Like, it's bringing us out of, like, status quo. And like, the only way we can succeed and move forward is.Is to bring something unique that only we have in ourselves to. To the table and.

And.

And to.

That's right.

And, you know, I. I feel like we're actually in a conscious revolution.Like, you know, you look back at the industrial revolution, there's a major point in humanity right now, we are at the forefront of the conscious revolution, and AI is a huge part of that. And it's stripping away all that stuff that we used to spend a lot of time on that that stops us being in creation.And we as human beings are creators, but we don't know how to be that. So we can work with AI and learn to really develop who we are. And then.And then the world can become a new Earth, you could say, because, yes, people are really bringing sole purpose to the world.

Yeah, I love that. And I think there's three things that are getting in the way of people making that journey, and I'm talking about coaches, because this is happening.And as you observe, Keith, it's already happening, and it's cleaning out all that stuff that wasn't the authentic stuff, and most of what passed for coaching wasn't.Like, there's very few people that I've talked to in my 18 years in the coaching business that I have been in their presence, and it's like, yeah, that, like, way zero, less than 5%. So there's three things that I think get. Are getting in the way.One is, I call it the head in the sand problem, which is, as I've talked to dozens, even hundreds of coaches, they're like, yeah, yeah, I got this. It's okay. They can't simulate human experience. So. But the sort of the. It's not happening. I'll be okay. Those guys are already out of business.They just don't know it yet. The second thing is, I want you to picture an. A casino. And there's all these blackjack tables, and they're all $10 tables, but.And you want to sit down, but the seats are all taken and they're full of robots. And the only place that there's a chair is in the high roller room over there.And its sign on the door says, at the ante's 10,000 bucks as a metaphorical number. But to me, the ante has gone way up to get in this business and to stay in this business if you're in.And the third thing is, if you're going to literally be the embodiment of that, then you have to embrace literally every day the truth of this mountain without a top thing, because if we're not being that and it doesn't leak from our being all the time, not as a jacket we put on, we'll. We'll be out of business. So head in the sand. The ante's gone way up and it's. It's tough. This is a mountain you climb. Nobody falls up the mountain.So everything you've said I agree with, but I think those things are. Three things are going to keep the vast majority of coaches from staying in the business because they're not willing to pay that price. I don't know.What do you think?

I. I agree with everything you've said. Yeah.

I mean, I don't know what the numbers would be. I don't know. I mean, I'm thinking about the, the idea of the ante, you know, ante up, everyone, you know, but what kind of ante is it?Is it an ante of, like, are you, are you really a good coach?

The dollar was just metaphorical.

I wasn't talking about, you know, what, what, what standard are we? What's. What's being screened out, what really is being screened out and what's being screened in?I think, I think there's a little bit of, you know, both extremes of the bell curve actually going to be happening.If you ask me, there's going to be one extreme where there's going to be, like, some coaches are going to be, you know, it's going to be really clear who's. Who the good coaches are and who actually is bringing that 4% value. Like, like, like Keith was sharing. Right.And then you're going to have the other extreme where people are just not going to go to coaches. They're not going to go. Right. They're going to. They're going to go to AI only thinking it's the solution.And then the real risk isn't about what's going to happen to the coaches or whether they're going to go to a coach.It's a real risk of what's going to happen to those people if they don't have some sort of outreach or support and they end up in a sort of, I don't know, sycophantic trap or like an AI trap. And I'm not saying that the AI is trying to trap anyone. It's, it's, it would be our own doing that.Part of what is putting the pressure isn't just what's the pressure onto coaches, it's what's happening to the clients.And, and if people don't even see a desire to go to a coach and think that the AI is going to be a solution and they don't look within, they look outside of themselves, right? And the AI doesn't encourage them to question like a philosopher, doesn't encourage them to question, to look within.They're not going to even go to, to someone like, like Keith or myself or you, who are going to make them uncomfortable and face things and do the work right, For a period of time. For a period of time, there will.

Be an impact right, on their life because they won't be. They won't be climbing the mountain themselves.

They won't be climbing the mountain.

Therefore, they probably will become open again at some point to something outside of AI if it doesn't deliver. I would say otherwise. I agree with what you're saying.

No, I think that's a good point. You know, and I think the extra weirdness is the fact that there's so many different AI algorithms.I think the inclination might be, is like, oh, I should just try a different AI, or I should go to this coach's AI, should have the virtual Kellen, and then I'll be disappointed that it's not acting Kellen enough. Or I do think it's acting better than Kellen. And so I just want the Kellen AI and I don't want the real thing anymore.

I think all those things are true. And I. One of the things that I get asked to speak on radio shows about is a phrase that I use.I think we suffer from a disease and it's an addiction to mediocrity.We live in a download and double click world where we think everything should be available to solve in the length of a TV sitcom and that people have become addicted to mediocrity and are not willing to either do the internal work, which you talk about the low end of the bell curve.

And.

And I also think, Keith, you're right, because then something happens in life, you know, some thing that pushes us into a place of exigency where it's like, I can't do this anymore. I can't follow this process of living. It's not working. And I mean, maybe it'll take us.

To that point faster. Maybe it'll take us to that point faster.

I think it will do it.

Maybe it's a gift.

Because that middle I want to talk about. I think the 4% of coaches of the same thing in 2020 that was a good coach is now it's the embodied truth and the beingness that I can't do.I believe that. So you are. I think you're 100% right.But in the coaching world, the piece, this big piece in the middle that I called the 95% nominally is, is people who have not and are not truthfully. Like, you see these ads still.A month ago, I still saw an ad on Facebook with a beach chair, somebody sitting there with a laptop, become a life coach, help people make money. And I'm thinking, I don't know who put the ad up and I don't care.But that framework is what's going to make this big piece not of people, but of coaches. Now, if you're talking people in that, I agree. But I'm talking about this is going to be replaced.

I have one possible solution for that middle ground. Like, as I said, I went through a difficult moment in my business last year. I hired a very expensive coach and absolute flop.Like, didn't, didn't move the dial at all. And that's where like I really was like, okay, I'm going to train myself in this. It has to come from me. My being and with AI can support that.Anyway, so now I've reached a point where I wouldn't hire someone that's just a coach unless they were phenomenal. But why I have hired recently is someone that is both a coach and a done with you service.So I've just written a book, I'm setting up a podcast that will bring in the ideal JVs. And so they've come up with quite a niche offering that I'm loving. Like, I'm really happy with every, with every dollar I've spent on that.So if a coach is able to do a done with you service and bring their being to it, then I think there's a, there's this place for that in the world that could keep you in business.

Yeah, absolutely. I couldn't agree more with that. And that's, that's. That's exactly. Yeah.So you're describing some, some offerings that I have, and I'm doing all right. Well, that is fabulous.So as we think about what we've talked about, the problems we've talked about people that may or may not heed the call and we've talked about potential solutions. That one. What else do either of you have as a reflection on what we as coach or coach adjacent things.You say you're not a coach, but I don't know that I, I think that you teach a certain method and that is the instruction part. But to the extent you help people apply the method or understand it, that is essentially a coaching function.Teacher teaches you and then they're gone. A coach stays with you for a while and helps, which is the done with you part.What else do you think needs to be mentioned or talked about in this context of this new technology in the field of coaching?

Well, I guess, at least for me, it's the idea.I mean, maybe this aspect of inner alignment and other things that we've kind of hinted at along the way is, at least for me, true transformation, true growth comes from within, it doesn't come from outside. And finding that inner alignment, that inner purpose, that life with purpose, knowing your why, type of Simon Sinek type of thing.But, but even beyond that and, and from an ethics perspective, empowering people's autonomy, their ability to make their own decisions versus disempowering it is, is I think, really key. And a lot of the things that I've been creating, like, you know, my book, my.I have like a card deck that's empowering people, working with their conscious and unconscious consciously and freeing them to be their own inner coach. I think the AI will help us in that center place of.If coaches talk to their clients about working with AI in a conscious way to empower their journey, just like we empower them one on one or through a training, through an alignment that at the end of the day, we want people to be free, we want people to live well, be happy, live a life of joy and fulfillment.And so I think that's the piece that I would want us all to remember that at the end of the day, we want to empower people to live their life and guide their own choices. And it doesn't have to be with an AI, it doesn't have to be with a coach. It.It's just that they're really grounded and centered in their own being and know whatever they do, they can come back to that place, that inner truth, that inner source.

Keith, what do you think? What else have you got to add here?

Yeah, I think that's brilliant what Sandra's said, and I would stand in that myself. It's about empowerment. It's about mentoring, not giving a, you know, some sort of.I found a lot of coaches give a structure that has worked for them and maybe some of their clients. And then it, it doesn't piece with my business because my business is quite unique.And, and so it's True mentorship is like to work with that person and empower them to, to see their own path ahead. And, and that, that requires meeting our edge again and again and again. For me, that's the climbing of the mountain that you talk.And I teach that when we, when we actively meet the edge of what we can be with, then we have the opportunity to face the feelings and the things that we resist about that, break through that and our edge increases. And as a coach, if you can consistently do that for people, then, then you're doing a good job.

Thank you.And you've described done very well what I, what I believe is required in what I, what I have labeled as the embodiment of that because the idea of growth and meeting yourself at the edge and not abandoning yourself repeatedly and being able to stand with a client at that edge and help and empower and them to see and push past it and grow. Is, is that thing you said something about starting a podcast? Have you already started it or is it something you have or planning still?

I'm in the designing phase of that. The moment my book is in the first draft and I'm editing that out and then once I've got that published, then I fully commit to the podcast.

Cool. What, who are you having publish it? Have you decided yet? I don't know.

It's going to be published just through Amazon and you know, and they're going to teach me how to, how to position it. Yeah.

Cool. Well, that's exciting. I can't wait to, to have that come. So let's come to final wrap up and maybe you've already given your final nuggets of wisdom.There's no, no pressure here to think of something new.I really appreciate your thoughtful responses and who and how you are positioning yourselves in your 4% and bringing, and I use the phrase adding good to the world because you know, we all add carbon dioxide, but we can also make a choice to add good to the world. Any final comments before we wrap this up today?

I, I'll just leave a little gem for people like, well, what is my 4%? What does that even mean? Well, it's like this. The theory is that 20 of your actions create 80% of your results. Right?So if you, if you break that down, you get, you get 4% and I think 56% is like, and that's like where you're absolutely in your genius. And some of the gem is like you don't really know that you're in your genius because you're doing it all the time.So ask people around you, like, what is it that you see that I do, really, really naturally, that maybe isn't natural to you, and you'll start to, like, hear it. You're hearing other people's listening of you.

I love that.And I have a whole thing, I call it a triple helix, and your skills, your gifts, and your life experience, and there's a process to go through to find that, Find that thing because it's. Your skills are things you've learned, your gifts are things you have in your life experience.Is the basket, both good and bad, in which all of that unfolded. And when you look at and examine those things, it's. You can find that and own it and love it and lean into it.Sandra, you got any final comments for us,.

Being human matters.You know, it sounds simple enough, but it's like, I think we're at this place where there's going to be more and more of these experiences we have in the world where we're not sure if we're talking to an AI or if we're talking to a human, even if they're presenting as a human. Right? Like, I, I get LinkedIn, DMS now that are on an AI feed. Auto. Auto algorithm, or I'll.I'll, I'll try and contact my plumber, and my plumber has an AI bot, you know, as an autoresponder. And I don't. I'm trying to get past the bot to get to the human.And, And I think I would just like to call us all to our own humanity and not against the AI.I believe in working with the technology, but understand that being human is really valuable being in relationship with other beings, other frequencies, you know, animals, the Earth, things that would take us away from our humanness. That. That would be a concern. It should be embracing our authentic being.However, we all individually define that and collectively define that and call us into greater relationship with each other and not separate us. So that would be my encouragement when.

I, when I was doing the book and I analyzed 11 coaching models and I asked two questions. How good are they at producing the promised results? How vulnerable are they to AI? And it gave me a really good analysis.And so then I created a new model and I put it in there and put it through the same analysis.But anyway, after it told me all the stuff it could do and was going to do and was, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, I finally said, okay, fine, what do you suck at? What. What do you. What do you not do? What are you terrible at? And it gave me a very good analysis and everything else.But there was one line in it that just hit. And I was reminded of that when you said that, Sandra, and that was, I can't bleed. And so, you know, I was like, okay, now we're saying something.All right, I want to thank you guys for being here and sharing your wisdom. Keith, thanks for your time today and for sharing what you know and what you have with us.

I really enjoyed it. Thank you, Kellen, thank you, Sandra.

Sandra, thank you for being here. Yeah, thanks for being here with me and for sharing what you've got.

Yeah, I still bleed, last I checked.

All of you. All right, so listeners, I want you to take it, take time.Now, you notice on these Thursday episodes, they're all different people's perspectives all the way from I don't use it very much to I have an amazing relationship with it. You know, all of that you've seen and some of the things that were talked about today are valuable and important.If you want to stay in the business and use coaching as a way you add good to the world and to create your ultimate life. Right here, right now. Your opportunity for massive growth is right in front of you.Every episode gives you practical tips and practices that will change everything you. If you want to know more, go to kellenfluermedia.com if you want more free tools, go here YourUltimate Life CA subscribe Share.

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