The 15-Minute Appointment That Leaves Families Broken for 23 Hours and 45 Minute

Welcome to the show. Tired of the hype about living a dream? It's time for truth.This is the place for tools, power and real talk so you can create the life you dream and deserve your ultimate life. Subscribe, share, create. You have infinite power. Hello and welcome to your ultimate life, the podcast I created.We're in our seventh year now to help you learn to live a life of purpose, prosperity and joy and to understand a real important truth that you create the experience of your life and therefore you can have anything you want. I have a couple of special guests today, Victoria Cure and Michael macniac. Victoria, Michael, welcome to the show.

Thank you for having us.

Yeah, thanks very much. This is quite, quite an honor. Thank you.

You're absolutely welcome. And I'm delighted with things that you're doing and who you're serving and how you're showing up in the world.Doing these interviews and getting to meet people is one of the favorite things that I do because I get to hear the stories and the choices and the heart involved. Now I don't do introductions on the show. People will understand what you do and how you are and everything as you go along.So, Michael, I'll just start with you and I know you guys are working together on some projects and that'll come out also. But Michael, I'm curious, what is the thing that you do to add good to the world that's near and dear, nearest and dearest to your heart?

Nearest and dearest to my heart.Well, there's a couple of things, but the thing that really gets me going is to try to teach people how they can become self empowered and self advocates in the medical and mental health care systems.So particularly for folks who are stuck with long term chronic illnesses such as severe mental illness or your neurological thing is disorders like your dementias or even long term issues, you know, where you have long term medical things that can start as in childhood or can be, you know, onset as an adult.And I, I really believe that our systems are, are, have always been suspect and if anything, now I think they're more suspect and I just hate the bureaucracy of it. It makes me irate.And I want to help people to, to really empower themselves and to build the family that they always wanted, that they dream of, but has somehow been taken away from them.

So there's several pieces in that that I'd like to dig into.So you have chosen, and I use that word on purpose, to be an advocate for those who have chronic conditions of some kind, physical or mental, and to Help them navigate an increasingly hostile health care system and to get the kind of both health care they need. And you mentioned create the family that they might yearn for. So talk to me first about.It's a bunch of questions, but what is the, what does the family part mean?

Well, anytime, you know, and what I've focused my career on for the last 30 years has been mental illness, severe and persistent mental illness in the family.And one of the things in teaching and teaching families, providing resources and providing a care coordination model that I created back in 2001 to help families to, to better coordinate and to be part of the team of providers that are working with their loved one, that is, that is dealing with severe mental illness. But what you see is that very realistically, these families have to, have to go through a stage of grief as well. And there is a loss here.It's the loss of the one, the person that you knew before, you know, the onset of particularly like a schizophrenia, say, is 18 to 25, typically maybe even a little 18 to 24. That kid, that teenager that you knew and nurtured is no longer there. And we have to accept the fact that there is that loss.And we have to teach families that you had a unit that you had designed and had or nurtured itself. And along comes this, this, this truck and just runs it right over.And now you are going to need to take what you have now, you know, and, and what you've been given and reshape it and make the best and the most productive, meaningful family unit out of it that you possibly can. And I think the same goes for chronic illnesses, it goes for dementias. You know, there's a loss.And one of the problems, one of the most powerful problems is that we're grieving a loss. We're grieving the loss of a person that's sitting across the table from us every single day. And that really creates a lot of emotions with people.Guilt, resentment, to name, to name a couple that become pervasive and need to be understood not, not, not quashed. Because there's just, that's not healthy. But understand it, grapple with it, know what it. I've heard you say this, know what it is, and then move on.And you know, we're going to deal with that or it is what it is. We're moving away from that. And that's, that's what I mean by recreating the family.

All right? So that means marshal the resources of the family so they can function again in a newly formed Capacity. Because the old way that it works is gone.It's okay to grieve that, to recognize the loss and then make a choice to me to be committed to the formulation of a new version with new tools and resources that you can do the best you can with, even though it's a new constitution.

Sure. And. And marshalling the resources. Part of marshalling those resources to. Is to.To call upon your own strengths and your own story, if you will, as to how you got this far and how you're going to go to the next part and, and hey, what other family members can step up and help you to do the same?

Cool. So, Victoria, I'll come to you. What, what way do you add good to the world that is nearest and dearest to your heart?

Well, I love helping people. I love paying it forward. I've been blessed to, to know you for years and years. And it's always the same thing.I want to help other people not go through what I went through alone.And so to be able to help people realize what is out there, the resources that are out there, the legitimate resources are out there because like you and I were talking about before we recorded, there's a lot of false hope out there. And to like, Mike and I just recently aligned together and he provides authenticity and hope and resources.And so with the partnership that is like my cup runneth over in its own way because we are able to reach even more people than I have before in regard to adding another puzzle piece into the completion of the puzzle itself.

What group of people like Mike talks specifically about chronic illness, long term chronic illness focusing, starting with mental health, but other things too. What group of people say, I like helping people. And I know that's broad and expands to a lot of things, but which ones are your. Are the.Are the apple of your eye, so to speak?

It's really all of them because everybody is so unique and they all have their own story. Children have a very soft spot for me. I have a very soft spot for them.And it's anybody who's had to go through something that most people don't to have to learn a new way. You learn to appreciate the smaller things in life that most people overlook and to know that it's just a different path.And the different path is beautiful because it's not what everybody else and who wants to be normal. Right. I want to stand out.I want to be able to show that I am beautiful, even though I have my scars and I have this and I have that and to Be able to advocate for those people and show them that we can offer help, I think is such a beautiful thing.And I feel guilty because you're not supposed to, you're paying it forward, but yet you get such a sense of fulfillment when you, you sense and you see what you're doing come to fruition.

You know, it's true that we, we get blessed when we choose.Like we're, we're built physiologically to love and serve each other because when we do that, we have a cascade of neurotransmitters that make us feel good and that's in the body. I think there's probably some kind of spiritual equivalent because the feel goodness is not just in the body, it's in the heart.And the energetic piece, the spirit piece of us also feels good. And we don't have names for those like anandamide or oxytocin or dopamine or whatever, but I'm sure there's some kind of energetic equivalent.So you guys are now working together on some things. What brought you together and what is the project that you're.I wanted to give some individual background a little bit and I'll dig into that in a minute some more as it makes sense. But what are you working together to do now? And I don't care who answers first because it's not really that structured.But what is it that you said you recently came together? What made that happen and what are you working on?

I'm looking at you, Victoria.

No, this is you. Go ahead.

All right. Well, honestly, I was asked to be on Victoria's podcast and a contagious smile.And we got together and we were chatting and I don't know, next thing I know, we were talking about how we can align. The stars are aligned and we can align what we've got in our galaxies and put them together to really, as she said, impact.Impact a lot more people, you know, in many different ways. Because we can.We really combine the micro level lived experience that she has in the macro level overview of what's going on in our, in our service systems that, that I've been working in for over 30 years now. And we, we rebranded the Care Coalition that I started a few years ago, which I consider to be my dream is for it to be a movement.It's a movement of like minded people who are seeing and agreeing with what we're saying right here, right now, who said, yeah, I'm on board, you know, give me, you have my vote. I'll sign the petition and try to utilize that power. There is no try do, as Yoda would say, or something like that.We're going to use that power to impact change on a much broader, much more macro level. I really believe that we can impact law and impact policy with the voice and the.The stories, you know, the stories of the Victoria and the voice of the many that we want to collaborate together in this Victoria.

What do you want to add to that?

It's the opportunity to bring together two totally different people. That it's like the yin and yang connection, because Michael has been in the courtroom, at the hospital. He's an attorney.He is the top of his game at what he does. I'm an advocate. I'm a survivor. I'm a mom. I'm special needs. I have a special needs child. I do the support, I give support, I do therapy for patients.But it's the alignment of both of us together, coming together that fill up the questions and be able to actually provide resources, be able to provide some comfort, some knowledge, some information that they may never have found the correct information because there's so much out there.And to have somewhere that individuals and caregivers can go where they know that they are accepted, they're validated, and they're heard is so hard to find. And then to combine Mike and my resources together, it is like, not out there. It's not available anywhere other than the CARE coalition.

So I love that. And I want to give you some. A couple of things that I know because of the guests that I interview. I know a guy in Australia who.His daughter, when she was 13, because of. I'm not gonna tell the whole story, take too long. But she had an eating disorder.And because of stuff she found on social media, I think it was Instagram about how to hide that and how to do this, that and the other. She ended up dying. And so he took it on himself to go make the noise, be the advocate, do the work that you're doing.And he is responsible for getting the law passed in Australia. That was about a year ago that was limiting the age of access to social media to 16.

Good for him.

And so he did that. And it's called. I forgot. Okay. But it's named after his kid. And so he did that.And I just interviewed another lady who in the Rhode island legislature, got a law passed to provide support and extra resources for women going through perimenopause and menopause because she did a bunch of archaeological, anthropological, and neuroscientific research demonstrating that the, you know, Women were valued initially for fertility, and then when they move out of that, they move into a different phase and they're actually, their abilities are actually more highly used as nurturers of tribes. And that's sort of inherent in like matriarchal Indian societies.And my wife and I were docents in the herd museum in Phoenix for a long time with a lot of Southwest tribes. And you see that sort of thing. My point is there are two individuals. She got a movie made, her husband was a director.They did a thing, they made a movie. It's on right now. It's on bingeable.net, called Wise Women or something.So I'm giving you those two examples because no matter what the obstacles are that you are looking at, one person or two made the moves, made the things and are causing these things to happen.And I noticed about six months after that law got passed in Australia, some of the same conversation was taking place in Washington D.C. in the United States about limiting this, that and the other. And so I, I offer that just by way of encouragement in terms of what you're doing. So what is your vision like after you fix the world?And I know that's a broad thing, but you're trying to do something. You're talking about making resources available, empowering family unit, whatever they look like, caregivers, etc. Etc.So if you tell me what the vision is, I see a world that. What?

Well, in your example, in that I see a world where these bureaucracies are broken down, the systems have been quote, unquote fixed, and there's a mass understanding of the needs of, well, the needs of the most at need populations living in our, in our communities.Then it's time to retire and go around celebrating with everybody about that openness and that, and that acceptance and that, and have open conversations and dialogues about the, well, and part of getting there is to have open conversations and dialogues too.But, but feel free to talk to your, your fellow man about what you've been through and not, not, not hide it, not be ashamed of it or not feel like you got to climb uphill every time you try to get something special for yourself or something that you deserve for your, for your, your loved ones.

Victoria, what is the vision that you see in, in the world?

I want, and this is why I aligned with Mike, is I want to help provide more resources to de escalate all of the unbelievable frustration that comes for the caregiver and the individuals going through all this because you have so much going on Already and to not have answers and to see your loved one go into an emergency room and they're like, you can't come back yet.You have to go fill out forms or we can't talk to you because Your child's over 18, but we're just going to go sedate them and tie him up and let him go to sleep. That's not really fixing the problem.And to be able to offer these resources and help with the stress of it, because it's not just the stress on the individual going through it, it's the stress on the family, it's the stress on the caregiver, it's the unknown that will eat you alive in that time.We always say you get that 15 minute doctor appointment, you know, and the rest of the time it's the what ifs, the what ifs, what, what's going to happen and not knowing and how do I get here and what resources am I allowed to have?And we want to help fix all that and bring down that stress level and, and help everybody get what they need to make things easier for everyone and, and then things get better for everyone.

So I'm hearing reducing barriers, eliminating red tape, raising conversation, permission to talk freely about that like we would about the weather and, you know, that kind of thing, to destigmatize and to eliminate the struggles that are now heaped on top of the actual problem, which is whatever's busted.

Right?

Right. Okay. Michael?

Yeah.I think that one of the things that I'm starting to see, I did an interview yesterday with a gentleman who was a physician and his brother was struggling with schizophrenia.And it was, you know, obviously a very interesting perspective to have him looking at the, as a family member and as from the perspective of patient, slash victim, however you want it, whatever you want to call it, I think that, that our people do not go into the medical professions lightly. They're not going in there because they want to be blowing people off and they want to be slaves to the insurance systems.

Right.

Or slave to the bureaucracy or whatever the hospital administration upstairs says they've got to do, that's not what they're there for. And I think that the more we can point out to those people, the, the nurses, doctors, clinicians, technicians that are working in those hospitals.And as Victoria pointed out, the real life struggle that goes on outside your four walls. Right.If you, if you can have a better understanding of what goes on outside your four walls, I think you would have a better understanding about or, or take time to understand it. I'M not saying people are stupid.People, people, once they take time to understand, can get very passionate and change, make subtle changes, moving into, you know, big door swing on small hinges.I think that that in and of itself would be the best thing that we could hope for is the change from the inside pushing back against Goliath and recreate, especially here in the States, recreate the way that we look at medicine. Get more proactive about it instead of reactive about it. Because when we're reactive, we are inefficient and ineffective.And I think that bears out in the numbers.

So let's assume that everything you're saying is exactly correct. Today's May, whatever you're. This episode is going to be released in June. So by the time you listeners here, it'll be mid June.If you think about what you'd like to have for Christmas or New Year's, like, what do you want in, in a short term? So what we've been talking about are lofty goals and I love them.My goal is to reach 300 million people and a whole bunch of other stuff tied to that. But I want to know what. I'm going to ask you two questions, and these are in sequence. One is what do you want for Christmas?In other words, what would you like to have done by New Year's or Christmas or whatever makes sense to you in terms of your milestones? And so let's just do that first. With the work you're doing, you joined forces, you're raising awareness, reducing barriers. You're coming on shows.You did one yesterday, today, as many as you can. And what do you want to have happen this year?

Go ahead.

By Christmas, I want us to have an excited, palpable feeling from our community. Feedback. I want this thing to be very vibrant and iterative.I want 50,000 people to join our, our collaboration and raise their hands and say, yeah, you're right, we gotta, we gotta do something about this. So that's, that's what I want. I want the numbers, but I don't want just numbers.I want people who are going to say, hey, put a, put a poll out there and I'm going to answer it. I will push this poll around to everybody else.And you know, from those discussions come the bigger ideas and the people who also raise their hands to say, I'm on board. I know somebody in Australia who, who helped push this law through.Let me see if I could talk to him about how we can do that here, you know, and, and just those connections, the interrelatedness of all of these things will grow to create a. A passionate group. I mean, it just has to, by its very nature, because it's impacting every single one of us every day.

All right, so if I say this, Michael says, I want to engage community of 50,000 people by New Year's. That's what I want for Christmas. And I'll tell they're engaged because they answer surveys and they share their resources and they engage.Do you, have you picked a platform? Are you using circle? Is it. Are you using non social media? Like, how would you know? Where are they going to go?If we're going to encourage people in this conversation to go somewhere and do something, I want you to think about what that is. Victoria, what do you want for Christmas?

What I want for Christmas is to continue to provide resources that aren't there now. Like, we have come up with things that aren't out there. For instance, Mike has his podcast holding it together, kinda. And then we have a joint one.This is what it takes.And unlike any podcast out there, when we're done with the podcast, we put together a workbook, if you will, or a companion that goes along with the podcast.Like we just did one for teens because Mike had a bunch of teens on for a mental health day and it's going out and then you go to Etsy and you work with it during or after the podcast and you're listening to it. We want to be able to offer that. He has the academy.We want to put more courses in there, more opportunities for podcast books, speaking engagements, to really be able to get out there. So if somebody only, you know, reads a book, there's books out there. Somebody only listens to a podcast that's out there.If somebody wants to, you know, look at options by going to a convention and listen to speakers that's out there. We want to make sure that we're everywhere so that people can have easily accessible resources to them. And that's what I want for Christmas.

All of that you want by Christmas?

I'll get it.

Okay? I'm not saying you can't have it. I am in the world of self creation, there's no doubt about that.The reason I ask is because one of the things I'm going to ask later is where you want people to go and what do you want them to do as a result of listening to this.And I don't want you to answer that now, but I want you to think about it, because they hear this and they get excited because they've been Taking care of aunt so and so, or they've got a kid with this or that problem or they've got a friend. Like I had a guest lady on it was had, you know, great family, great husband, wife, good marriage and everything else.And for whatever reason, their two teenage sons had wild trouble with substances and so forth. I mean we're talking hospitals and overdose and near death and all this stuff.And there was nothing environmental that would have suggested that problem. And so, you know, her mission now is to help moms and dads and families in that, those kind of situations because she went through it.And so my question for you is going to be where do you want people to go and what do you want them to do? But before we get there, what I'd like to ask you, Michael, to start with is how did you get here? Like, why is this so important to you?What has happened in Michael's life that says this is where I lay it down? All in all the time, what happened?

Well, there's a couple of things.The, the easiest answer is to say that I was practicing law and I was doing this kind of work and I saw that there's a, there's really a, an acute need for willing people to, willing and capable people to be a voice for those who really can't speak for themselves. That's, that's, that's what happened in my early, early law career.Looking back, digging deeper, which I've been doing a lot of in the last 10 days, two weeks, especially big smiles, I think that I've always, as a kid, I mean this is one of those Freudian observation things, I guess, but I really believe that I've always had this sort of underdog feeling that I knew I didn't deserve. Does that make sense? Like I knew that I was better than what I perceived others perceived me as. And I always wanted to break out of that.And then of course, as soon as I would, I would say, well, that's not me, I'm the underdog. And I got to go back to being that in that shell.And I really, I really, in this, in this heart wrenching introspection that I've been undertaking for myself, I think that that being the guy, the sympathetic radical, that that understands what it's like to be in positions where you feel hopeless and helpless, even though you know you shouldn't feel that way. I wanted to make that radical, that radical approach and take radical change even though it may not be all that radical. Right.It's just the idea of, of picking Oneself up by the bootstrap sometimes comes across as radical. Like, who are you? Well, damn it, I'm. I'm me. And you know something? It took me 50, 50 years to figure that out.

Mm. So I. I love that. And, you know, even in the language, I feel like that I shouldn't feel like there's all this.There's all this judgment, self judgment, judgment of others. This isn't right. I don't have this. Deserve it. And this whole convol of nonsense. And the truth is, you're a divine being with skills and gifts.You've had a set of experiences that have brought you to a realization. And this is what I notice all the time.When a person, you, me, any of us goes through a difficult thing, we could just figure it out ourselves and say, okay, got this. Screw the rest of you. I'm good. But that never happens. What happens is when those things, almost always we say, yeah, let me help you.Yeah, I figured this out. And so there arises in us at the same moment the desire to be of service. And that is a characteristic evidence of how we are built.The divine spark in all of us that says, no, it's not just enough for me to. For me to be digging and figure this out myself, but now I got to turn around and help.

I think that despite what Machiavel would tell us, I think that human beings are innately and inherently helpful. I. I really think that if you. When it comes right down to it, every single one of us will raise their hand and will step up to help other people. The.The hardest part, for many of us, I think the. The contrary side to human nature is that we're afraid to ask for the help because of the. The perception that we're weak.The approval addiction that we may feel it will. Will be unaccepted by the tribe. Therefore, the. The saber tooth tiger will eat us. You know, I think that that's a big part.So I. I really believe that we are. And you've brought it up at least twice now, is. Is we are here to help others. And then there's. You have to.You have to figure out why you're here on this planet and what you're going to do with it because you've been given talents, you've been given a voice of some kind. You got to figure out what you're.

Going to do on a. Own it and lean into it. All right, Victoria, so you've said what you want to have happen, and how did you get here?Like, I know you, because We've been chatting for some years now, off and on in different ways. Like, as much as you feel like you want to share what has happened, you don't fall up this mountain. Nobody freaking falls up a mountain.So you're here where you are with this yearning to serve and love, and yet there's a reason. Reasons. So what brought you to this place, here, now, with this yearning to create what you described by Christmas?

Well, I was in a domestic violence marriage, and it. The abuse didn't begin until I became pregnant. I didn't even live with him until I was pregnant.I was working cross country, and so I didn't even live with him until after we were married. And the abuse started as soon as I became pregnant.And as of now, I've had well over 120 surgeries to correct the damage that was caused by the abuse and the stabbings. And I went through it alone. I went through it isolated from everyone.There were times I didn't even want to get off the floor because I didn't think I'd make it through another day. There were times I, you know, wanted to give up. But then I would feel my daughter's little kicks that reminded me that she was there, too.And that's when I picked myself up, brushed myself off, and said, she deserves a good mom, and I'm gonna give her just that. And so I became an advocate for surviving. And I was that battered, beaten woman.If you put it into that category where you wouldn't look people in the eye, you didn't speak, you were afraid of everything, every noise. I jumped at everything. And I went through it alone. And I said, I cannot have anybody else go and do this first. Nobody should go through it alone.It's not one kick, one punch, one hit. It is one just too many. And nobody should ever put their hands on you in an unwarranted manner.Then when my daughter was life flighted after being in the ICU for weeks, she went into the nicu. And when I was released, I was in a wheelchair, and I stayed by her side for six months. And my daughter's had 54 surgeries.She had to be trachelastically dependent because she was coding every single day. She had epilepsy. She was having 20 seizures a day.And when you're in there, you get the doctor to come in for like 15 minutes, and then you don't have anything for 23 hours and 45 minutes. And that is the longest time of your life. When you're looking at your little girl, Fighting for her life right there.And so I, in order to bring her home from the nicu, you have to be trained on her, and you have to know how to disassemble the equipment. You have to know how to do an emergent trach change, a feeding tube change. You have to know how to do all of these things.But I wanted to go one step further, and I wanted to learn about how do I do all this? What else can I do? How do I advocate for her? And then I was advocating for other kids in the NICU as well, because I was sitting in there.And so I learned how to do the ins and outs.I learned about how, for instance, there are waivers for different situations for, like, insurances that can be applicable to the situation, and that's critical.So then I went through all of that, and I started a contagious smile at the request of a doctor who said, you need to be doing this because you're helping so many people here. And then it just got bigger and bigger. And then it ended up where I began podcasting four years ago now, and it became a top global 1% podcast.And then I've been doing the books and things like that.And it's when I get people and I tell them that they're not alone, and whether it's mental illness or chronic illness or, you know, they're surviving, everybody's in a recovery of some sense.Whether it's a surgical recovery or if it's a mental health recovery, if it's, you know, para ban recovery, if it's having a GJ tube, whatever it is, they're in a recovery. When I tell them that even the tiniest flicker of light can start a wildfire, and you build that trust with people.It's a lifetime partnership in its own way.I still talk to the people I was advocating for 20 years ago, and I love that because you see the growth that they make, and when they feel that there's that authenticity and the realness and support and understanding that you don't get a lot of other places. It is such a bond. And that is why I'm here.

So that's fabulous, and thank you for sharing that, because I want people to understand that you. You have a story, and the stories are real. And so the. The yearning to advocate is real, that the trek through the struggles is real, and the, The.The deep desire to lift and bless is real. And sharing those things has allowed, will allow the listeners to understand that. So now we get to the part where what do you want people to do.They've heard your story, they've heard your dream, They've heard your Christmas present. They're listening to you here. What do you want them to do right now when they get done listening to this?

For me, I want them to join the CARE Coalition and raise their hand. And how do I do that? You go to care coalition.org and join our community. It's totally free.And there we have the Mental Health Resource Network, where you can start exploring some of the tools that we have created already and that we're continuing to create, which is one of the groups on the CARE Coalition platform. There's a Facebook page. There's a Facebook group for that and everything.I, I also hope that people will feel the freedom and the, the willingness to reach out and talk to us about what, how, how they, what, what they feel when they hear us talk. I, I really want to speak to people. I want to get out to as many people as I can by platforms, by podcasts, etc.Because that is the first and best way to grasp somebody's attention. And then I want them to feel that they can call. Really moved me. And here's why. Here's what I'm doing in my work or in my life or in my family.Share your stories with me. I really want to know them and I want to pass them on.

Right. So I'm hearing care coalition.org go there, join, join.And there's a, there's a way to join on that page and there are resources available there for you. That's the first thing. The second thing is to reach out to share stories and talk with you. Is it evident on that page how to do that?

If it's not, I will tell you. You can write mikearecoalition.org or my namemail.com.

I'm just asking so that if someone hears it, you know, because we're all short attention span, and if I go to do something and it takes me more than 27 seconds, it's like, all right, I'll get back to it later. And then I don't do it.

Right?

Yeah. Go to carecoalition.org, sign up, reach out, go to the Facebook, send us a message, DM me however you want. I'm happy.I love to hear how other people are taking these same lessons and utilizing them in their life to be able to share that story with everybody else.

I love it. So that's what I'm doing is sharing stories because I want people to move into their own power. And to create Victoria. What do you want people to do?And I know you guys are working on this together and I'm asking you individually, but I what do you want someone, when they get done hearing this to do right now?

Well, I'll go a step further. You could go to infocarecoalition.org and give your story. That's easy to remember.Just infocarecoalition.org tell your story that way and it gets to us and we do respond to everything. If you go into your Facebooks and do Mental Resource Network, Care Coalition, Mental Health Resource Network, CARE Coalition, that's our, our group.We are active in there every day being May or now. When you go live or post this, it won't be, it'll be June.But we're posting every single day tips and resources that nobody else has out there anywhere. Also listen to the podcast. They're full of unknown information. They're full. Holding It Together is Mike's and it's a fabulous podcast.This is what It Takes has both of us on there as well.

So say the names of those shows slower.

Holding It Together kinda.

Is Mike Holding It Together kinda? Is that all one word or Holding It Together Kinda is the name of the show.

It's the name of the show.

So it's like I'm holding it together kinda.

Exactly, yes.

I think, I hope we recorded that.

Because that's what it's recorded. The whole thing's recorded. You can take this episode and use it of course, any way you want.

This. And then the other one is this is what it Takes which is our joint series that we do together.And then you can go to the Etsy store and we, we make it where it's affordable for everybody, where we're putting out resources out there. You can go to Care Coalition and join.We are making it so easy for everybody to find and get the help that they need and we want to help as many people as we can.

Good. Well, I want them to be able to hear this and understand it and take immediate action. So let's take one more round here.What didn't I ask you that you were dying to say today on the show? What do you want people to know that we didn't talk about?

I also, because you always cover everything that I'm still one of these people even though I'm one handed now that I love to hold a book in my hand and I want people to go to Amazon and look at Mike's book and it's Michael macniac and they can look at Victoria Curie. And we have books there too, that you can take with you. You can take our resources and have them in your phone, on your phone.They're accessible that way too. But nobody anymore really takes time and just reads for a period of time every day like I do. And a lot of people are all like, electronic based.Just get out there and see. All you have to do is research and Google and you're gonna find these things.And people are afraid because they get so much misinformation and then they give the wrong information to the caregivers. And the doctors are like, you don't even know what you're talking about. Don't Google this because you're giving us the wrong thing.Well, we're giving you the right stuff. And so we're trying to make sure that you have everything that you need.So before you give up, because you're not giving up on yourself, give us a chance and go in there and see how we can make things better for you.

I appreciate both of you sharing your passion and your heart with me today.

Thank you for having us.

Thank you, Kellan. It's been an honor and it's been a lot of fun listeners.

I want you to take this really seriously.I know both of these folks, one of them a little longer than the other, but their mission is serious, their heart is real, and they're offering all that they have to bless your life and to lift your heart no matter what you're struggling with. And if you're going to create a life you love, which is what your ultimate life's about, you have to start where you are.You can't start somewhere else. And if there's a struggle and if you're not getting the support you need, it's available.And these generous and wonderful souls have offered to listen and to provide whatever they have in the way of resources to help you with that. All of those things are steps in the direction of creating your ultimate life. Right here, right now.Your opportunity for massive growth is right in front of you. Every episode gives you practical tips and practices that will change everything.If you want to know more, go to kellenfluermedia.com if you want more free tools, go here. Your ultimate life ca subscribe, share.

And your feet are on the ground.